The blue area ignores 7 World Trade that was quickly rebuilt after completely collapsing. When the 7 World Trade is included the location is literally around the corner.

 

That's some great intel Card. :thumb:

 

This puts the proposed GZ Mosque within 300' of Ground Zero. It also explains how one woman I heard interviewed could state that you could see Ground Zero from the site of the new mosque and vice versa. Wow...

 

I'm beginning to believe there are some who would support the erection of a mosque in the center of Ground Zero, but this realy puts things in perspective for me.

That's some great intel Card. :thumb:

 

This puts the proposed GZ Mosque within 300' of Ground Zero. It also explains how one woman I heard interviewed could state that you could see Ground Zero from the site of the new mosque and vice versa. Wow...

 

I'm beginning to believe there are some who would support the erection of a mosque in the center of Ground Zero, but this realy puts things in perspective for me.

 

I support everyone's, regardless of their religious beliefs, 1st Amendment rights. I would think all the "limited government" conservatives on here would do the same, but obviously I'm wrong.

I support everyone's, regardless of their religious beliefs, 1st Amendment rights. I would think all the "limited government" conservatives on here would do the same, but obviously I'm wrong.

 

Agreed. And actually, the "limited government" conservatives have been surprising me in many ways this year, not just with this topic.

Agreed. And actually, the "limited government" conservatives have been surprising me in many ways this year, not just with this topic.

I agree that from a "limited government" standpoint, this is not a battle for the government to fight. However, private citizens have the right to protest outside this mosque on a daily basis and also to boycott all local Muslim-owned businesses on account of the high level of local Muslim support for the mosque being built near Ground Zero.

 

Also, here's a question: if the stated reason for building this mosque is to improve interfaith/intercultural relations, then why are the backers of this mosque building project not changing their plans and having the msoque built elsewhere, since it's clear this mosque is NOT helping improve interfaith/intercultural relations? Could it be there is another motive?

I agree that from a "limited government" standpoint, this is not a battle for the government to fight. However, private citizens have the right to protest outside this mosque on a daily basis and also to boycott all local Muslim-owned businesses on account of the high level of local Muslim support for the mosque being built near Ground Zero.

 

Also, here's a question: if the stated reason for building this mosque is to improve interfaith/intercultural relations, then why are the backers of this mosque building project not changing their plans and having the msoque built elsewhere, since it's clear this mosque is NOT helping improve interfaith/intercultural relations? Could it be there is another motive?

 

Those protestors do have their right. But, motives? I can't speak to motives, other than what's been stated. I can spend a lot of time trying to look for the "what's not said", but they've stated their reasons and I don't have any reason to not believe them. And, I'm a HUGE supporter of the 1st Ammendment, probably as big or bigger than many of you are on the 2nd Ammendment. Of all the ammendments, I think it's the most important, followed by the 5th, 6th, and 7th, which are all equally important.

 

I believe that they have the right to build their center wherever they chose, for whatever reason they choose. In this area I absolutely believe that there should be no interference. I do think it's important to not that it's not cheap to go through the "plan" process in designing any reconstruction or new building. I would think that would be a part of the decision to keep the plans as-is.

I support everyone's, regardless of their religious beliefs, 1st Amendment rights. I would think all the "limited government" conservatives on here would do the same, but obviously I'm wrong.

 

???

 

How does limited government come into play?

 

I don't government has much role here.

 

The people of NY do.

Edited August 12, 201016 yr by Bluegrasscard
add last 2

I believe that they have the right to build their center wherever they chose, for whatever reason they choose. In this area I absolutely believe that there should be no interference. I do think it's important to not that it's not cheap to go through the "plan" process in designing any reconstruction or new building. I would think that would be a part of the decision to keep the plans as-is.

You are right... it's impossible to discern their true motives. However, if they are sincere in their stated motive, then it seems they are prepared to spend a great deal of time, money and effort completing a project which has had/will have the exact opposite effect of what they are reportedly intending with the project. Seems odd to me...

 

It appears to me that what they have managed to accomplish (either intentionally or unintentionally) is to really pick off the scab of Muslim - non-Muslim tension in NYC, which is no mean feat given how tolerant and multicultural NYC is.

???

 

How does limited government come into play?

 

I don't government has much role here.

 

The people of NY do.

 

They can protest all they want. But there have been people that have said this shouldn't be allowed. That means they want someone (who else could they mean but gov't?) to step in and stop it.

You are right... it's impossible to discern their true motives. However, if they are sincere in their stated motive, then it seems they are prepared to spend a great deal of time, money and effort completing a project which has had/will have the exact opposite effect of what they are intending with the project. Seems odd to me...

 

As I mentioned, I can't speak for them, because I don't know. BUT, historically speaking, the easy thing to do (in this case cede to the will of the protestors) isn't always what will accomplish the best in the long term. Sometimes, change hurts. And maybe it's time that we stop holding on to this anti-Muslim sentiment. Maybe it's time for the citizens to step up and live up to the ideals that our country was founded upon.

 

It's time to forgive, and I believe that. One cannot assume that everyone who practices the Muslim faith is nefarious. The fact that we hold on to this and trot it out shows we have not made the step to healing. I believe with all my heart that the way to defeat the anti-Christian sentiment that MAY be there is to exhibit the very best Christian ideals.

I support everyone's, regardless of their religious beliefs, 1st Amendment rights. I would think all the "limited government" conservatives on here would do the same, but obviously I'm wrong.

This whole thread was opened under the question of whether this mosque is "A Stupid Idea?"

 

I have stated that "Yes" I do think it is a stupid idea, and I was stupid enough to state why I believe this specific mosque at this specific location by this specific imam is a stupid idea.

 

For this I have been tarred with broad sweeping hyperbole fueled generalizations concluding in essence that since I think this singular mosque is a bad idea, I am automatically:

• … against ALL mosques everywhere in this country…
  
• …a narrow minded bigot, racist that’s intolerant of any religion other than the one I choose to follow…
  
• …a hypocrite that wants the full force of the First Amendment protecting my rights but unwilling to extend them to others with whom I may disagree.
  

I have then been feathered with impassioned lectures on the merits of the First Amendment.

 

This is absurd!

 

I have said nothing whatsoever indicating I am against people who choose to peacefully practice Islam… on American soil. I do however; have tremendous issues with those who take it to its fullest extremes. In reading extensively to actually understand the dynamics of what's going on here, I am not connvinced that this Imam is being honest.

 

This is NOT a First Amendment issue. The First Amendment covers the freedom to worship as we choose, to assemble peacefully and to speak freely and openly. It does NOT grant anyone the right to build whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want. That is a matter of zoning and public acceptance best left to residents of the communities in which they live.

 

SO TO BE CLEAR… I have not stated anywhere that government should do anything. ( Believe it or not, government is the solution for all of us. )

AND… I think building the proposed mosque, at this specific location by this specific Imam is a stupid idea. :thumb:

This whole thread was opened under the question of whether this mosque is "A Stupid Idea?"

 

I have stated that "Yes" I do think it is a stupid idea, and I was stupid enough to state why I believe this specific mosque at this specific location by this specific imam is a stupid idea.

 

For this I have been tarred with broad sweeping hyperbole fueled generalizations concluding in essence that since I think this singular mosque is a bad idea, I am automatically:

• … against ALL mosques everywhere in this country…
  
• …a narrow minded bigot, racist that’s intolerant of any religion other than the one I choose to follow…
  
• …a hypocrite that wants the full force of the First Amendment protecting my rights but unwilling to extend them to others with whom I may disagree.
  

I have then been feathered with impassioned lectures on the merits of the First Amendment.

 

This is absurd!

 

I have said nothing whatsoever indicating I am against people who choose to peacefully practice Islam… on American soil. I do however; have tremendous issues with those who take it to its fullest extremes. In reading extensively to actually understand the dynamics of what's going on here, I am not connvinced that this Imam is being honest.

 

This is NOT a First Amendment issue. The First Amendment covers the freedom to worship as we choose, to assemble peacefully and to speak freely and openly. It does NOT grant anyone the right to build whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want. That is a matter of zoning and public acceptance best left to residents of the communities in which they live.

 

SO TO BE CLEAR… I have not stated anywhere that government should do anything. ( Believe it or not, government is the solution for all of us. )

AND… I think building the proposed mosque, at this specific location by this specific Imam is a stupid idea. :thumb:

 

To be clear, I have never claimed that you or anyone else here specifically said the government should do something. To claim that people, whether through this medium or others haven't clamored for them to put a stop to the construction is extremely naive however.

 

I've also never claimed that I felt it was either a good or bad idea. I've simply said I have zero problem with it, and that they are well within their rights to do so. I feel anyone who feels they do NOT have the RIGHT to build the mosque where they see fit is guilty of religious discrimination against the Islamic faith. I don't see how it can be taken any other way.

I can't speak to motives, other than what's been stated. I can spend a lot of time trying to look for the "what's not said", but they've stated their reasons and I don't have any reason to not believe them.

The attached clip is about 17 minutes long, but is well worth the time with a highly credible source who explains what we're not hearing, and what is really being said in Arabic about the proposed mosque. This is only the tip of what I have been reading and learning about all this. You may make up your own mind. :thumb:

 

This whole thread was opened under the question of whether this mosque is "A Stupid Idea?"

 

I have stated that "Yes" I do think it is a stupid idea, and I was stupid enough to state why I believe this specific mosque at this specific location by this specific imam is a stupid idea.

 

For this I have been tarred with broad sweeping hyperbole fueled generalizations concluding in essence that since I think this singular mosque is a bad idea, I am automatically:

• … against ALL mosques everywhere in this country…
  
• …a narrow minded bigot, racist that’s intolerant of any religion other than the one I choose to follow…
  
• …a hypocrite that wants the full force of the First Amendment protecting my rights but unwilling to extend them to others with whom I may disagree.
  

I have then been feathered with impassioned lectures on the merits of the First Amendment.

 

This is absurd!

 

I have said nothing whatsoever indicating I am against people who choose to peacefully practice Islam… on American soil. I do however; have tremendous issues with those who take it to its fullest extremes. In reading extensively to actually understand the dynamics of what's going on here, I am not connvinced that this Imam is being honest.

 

This is NOT a First Amendment issue. The First Amendment covers the freedom to worship as we choose, to assemble peacefully and to speak freely and openly. It does NOT grant anyone the right to build whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want. That is a matter of zoning and public acceptance best left to residents of the communities in which they live.

 

SO TO BE CLEAR… I have not stated anywhere that government should do anything. ( Believe it or not, government is the solution for all of us. )

AND… I think building the proposed mosque, at this specific location by this specific Imam is a stupid idea. :thumb:

 

If the zoning rules are followed, "public acceptance" has nothing to do with it.

 

Unless you (general you - not specific) can have a technical objection as to why this particular type (structure) of building cannot be built at this particular location, then the only objection is to what would go on inside of the building - that would be discriminatory based on religion.

Fastbreak-your thought have been well thought out, and I for one agree with you.

 

You also speak for the majority in the state of New York, which you showed, and America through polling. The problem is that the majority doesn't rule in America anymore-judges do. You also see that just like the Bible-the constitution and amendment are now used by all to prop up their arguments. Anybody can twist things however they see fit. Don't be discouraged, there is opposition to every idea, and part of that is what makes our country great. It is also what is killing and will kill our country. Like famous "lefty" musician John Mellencamp said in a tune, 'If ya don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything."

 

The ones who oppose what you say didn't have any loved ones killed that day, if they did they might feel differently. If they don't feel differently, then they shouldn't get their panties in a knot when a young military person is killed overseas in battle, because they are over there protecting our interests, and the religous freedoms of those in the other nations. They, too can't have it both ways. Either you care or you don't. To me America is no 1, and every other country a distant no. 2.

Fastbreak-your thought have been well thought out, and I for one agree with you.

 

You also speak for the majority in the state of New York, which you showed, and America through polling. The problem is that the majority doesn't rule in America anymore-judges do. You also see that just like the Bible-the constitution and amendment are now used by all to prop up their arguments. Anybody can twist things however they see fit. Don't be discouraged, there is opposition to every idea, and part of that is what makes our country great. It is also what is killing and will kill our country. Like famous "lefty" musician John Mellencamp said in a tune, 'If ya don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything."

 

The ones who oppose what you say didn't have any loved ones killed that day, if they did they might feel differently. If they don't feel differently, then they shouldn't get their panties in a knot when a young military person is killed overseas in battle, because they are over there protecting our interests, and the religous freedoms of those in the other nations. They, too can't have it both ways. Either you care or you don't. To me America is no 1, and every other country a distant no. 2.

 

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense to me. If I've lost a loved one at the hands of a Baptist, should I object to a Baptist church being built near the sight of that incident?

 

And to me, America is number one as well. But I think that what I feel makes her number one and what you think makes her number one are very different.

 

And protecting the religious freedoms of those in other nations? What's that about?