What Exactly Is Wrong With Profiling?

[acemona]

If it is a repeated pattern that occurs constantly, I could see it being harassment.

 

But if it is a one-time occurrence or if it is something that happens very rarely, I don't see it as harassment.

 

Because it will never happen to you.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I doubt that you are going to be stopped and suspected of being an illegal Irish, Scottish or German immigrant (or whatever heritage you may have). However, legal Hispanic Americans will be. Apples and oranges, if ever there were any.

 

If there is reason for them to suspect an illegal Irish, Scottish or German immigrant, I would expect them too.

 

I was watching a history channel documentary on Italian Americans recently and they were complaining about the same type of thing from the 60's when the mafia/mob was in such power. Said that if you were Italian American, everyone in the country thought you were in the mob and were harassed by police.

 

Imagine white people being harassed by the police, too. Amazing that it happened in this country, too.

[acemona]

I just know that we are at war with a terrorist group called al-quada (sp?) who actually want to destroy us and have already killed countless American lives. We can all say racial profiling is terrible but I know when I go to an airport and see someone that fits the criteria for an al-quada member it will always be in the back of my mind that someone that resembles this person killed 3,000 Americans. I truly wish I did not have these feelings but what happened back in 2001 will stick with me forever.

 

You do know that the last two people arrested on planes were not of middle eastern heritage don't you? Maybe they were missed because they didn't fit the "profile".

[ladiesbballcoach]

Because it will never happen to you.

 

You have missed the posts about me being pulled over as a teenager several times in my youth because the police knew that teens sometimes did bad things at 2:00 AM on a Friday and Saturday night and I just happened to be a teen out at 2:00 AM on a Friday and Saturday night.

 

They asked me who I was and what I was doing and then sent me on my way when I had provided them with the information that had sufficed their questions.

[Fastbreak]

Compiling features and characteristics of a specific criminal suspect into a "profile" and carrying out an investigation is not at issue. Using broad characteristics, such as race or ethnicity, to assess the probability that someone will be more likely to be involved in crime and then subjecting them to greater scrutiny is at issue. You conflate these two issues in an attempt to make those concerned about racial discrimination seem foolish for not wanting police to carry out the legitimate and necessary function of tracking suspects. You then detach the two to dismiss the racial calculus aspect and mitigate criticism of racial discrimination, as though assessing the criminal probability of random people based on their race or ethnicity is a media boogeyman, despite it being exactly what you are advocating.

 

Does using profiling in the sense of the second issue make anyone safer? The knowledge that Arabs or people with Islamic-based names are subject to increased scrutiny before boarding aircraft may make some people feel safer, but the reality is that those who wish to use an aircraft as a weapon are still able to. Even worse, those who wish to who do not fit that particular stereotype may more easily slide under the radar as they could be given the benefit of the doubt or no scrutiny at all. If you really want to make airline travel safer, make sure that no one can get an explosive device, weapon, or means to overtake the cockpit onto a plane. If that doesn't happen, then anything else merely provides a false sense of security and appeals to our most base instincts on race.

For one so adverse hyperbole from others, you certainly have a knack for it yourself. Your post comes across as remarkably condescending. Fortunately, I'm not guilty of your assumptions, or I might take it that way. Suffice it to say, your assumed "profile" of me is inaccurate... :lol:

 

There is not one post in this thread (or any other,) where I advocate "racial profiling" and nothing but "racial profiling" as a legitimate proceedure. I have been crystal clear that such practices in and of themselves are not profiling but simple racism. Just as we all agree that painting with a broad brush based on race alone is wrong, refusing to consider race as a component in an investigation is equally absurd.

 

"Profiling" or what the FBI refers to as "criminal investigative analysis" has many, many facets. A person's ethnicity or race is merely one piece of the overall puzzle. The point is not to swipe with a broad brush, but to narrow the scope of likely perpetrators.

 

You want to see how to make an airline safe, read about El Al regarded by all who know about such things as the world's most secure airline. I doubt you'll agree with their tactics, but they have successfully thwarted dozens of hijackings and terrorist attempts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al

[ladiesbballcoach]

 

There is not one post in this thread (or any other,) where I advocate "racial profiling" and nothing but "racial profiling" as a legitimate proceedure. I have been crystal clear that such practices in and of themselves are not profiling but simple racism. Just as we all agree that painting with a broad brush based on race alone is wrong, refusing to consider race as a component in an investigation is equally absurd.

 

"Profiling" or what the FBI refers to as "criminal investigative analysis" has many, many facets. A person's ethnicity or race is merely one piece of the overall puzzle. The point is not to swipe with a broad brush, but to narrow the scope of likely perpetrators.

 

[/url]

 

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

[marvel]

You do know that the last two people arrested on planes were not of middle eastern heritage don't you? Maybe they were missed because they didn't fit the "profile".

 

:ohbrother:

 

okay? and your point is???

 

what was the heritage of the other 95% of people that have been arrested due to being a suspected terrorist?

 

Please, let's act like we have common sense.

[CoachBuckett]

See, this is what people on the left always do. They attach racial to profiling in order to turn it into what isn't intended. :ohbrother:

 

Try reading these two well thought out quotes and look at it for what it really is and not some left-wing talking point that we've all heard time and again.

 

It has nothing to do with being on the left or right.

 

How else do you profile?

 

Race

Sex

Ethinicity

 

Doesn't matter how you say it.Profiling isn't right!

[ladiesbballcoach]

It has nothing to do with being on the left or right.

 

How else do you profile?

 

Race

Sex

Ethinicity

 

Doesn't matter how you say it.Profiling isn't right!

 

So, what the FBI does to find serial killers/criminals is wrong? I believe their job titles are profilers.

[Guest Bluto]

It has nothing to do with being on the left or right.

 

How else do you profile?

 

Race

Sex

Ethinicity

 

Doesn't matter how you say it.Profiling isn't right!

 

I can see it now. The police say that the suspect is a male...

 

& CoachBuckett says: "Wait right there! You can't profile because of sex!"

 

 

What buffoonery.

[marvel]

No, it's all racist. .

 

How can you say that????

 

Heck, whenever you take a test in high school you get asked your ethnicity. I guess thats racist because they average out each score based on ethnicity???? What purpose does that serve???

 

God forbid you profile someone that fits a description.

 

Profiling trying to catch a criminal has been and always will be part of trying to catch a suspected criminal.

[marvel]

I can see it now. The police say that the suspect is a male...

 

& CoachBuckett says: "Wait right there! You can't profile because of sex!"

 

 

What buffoonery.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[CatsCatsCats]

So, what the FBI does to find serial killers/criminals is wrong? I believe their job titles are profilers.

 

Um...serial killer profiles are based on way more than just appearance. By looking at the patterns the killer leaves, they can deduct scientifically what traits the killer has in his mental make up. I don't think they look at a crime scene and say the killer was this race, this tall, this age, etc. But, that's neither here nor there.:idunno:

[CatsCatsCats]

How can you say that????

 

Heck, whenever you take a test in high school you get asked your ethnicity. I guess thats racist because they average out each score based on ethnicity???? What purpose does that serve???

 

God forbid you profile someone that fits a description.

 

Profiling trying to catch a criminal has been and always will be part of trying to catch a suspected criminal.

 

I find having to fill that out racist as well. I guess it's to help prevent cultural biases in the future though. So that really doesn't relate to profiling does it? It's kind of the opposite, isn't it?:idunno:

[Habib]

For one so adverse hyperbole from others, you certainly have a knack for it yourself. Your post comes across as remarkably condescending. Fortunately, I'm not guilty of your assumptions, or I might take it that way. Suffice it to say, your assumed "profile" of me is inaccurate...

 

I treat other posters how they treat me.

 

There is not one post in this thread (or any other,) where I advocate "racial profiling" and nothing but "racial profiling" as a legitimate proceedure. I have been crystal clear that such practices in and of themselves are not profiling but simple racism. Just as we all agree that painting with a broad brush based on race alone is wrong, refusing to consider race as a component in an investigation is equally absurd.

 

"Profiling" or what the FBI refers to as "criminal investigative analysis" has many, many facets. A person's ethnicity or race is merely one piece of the overall puzzle. The point is not to swipe with a broad brush, but to narrow the scope of likely perpetrators.

 

You want to see how to make an airline safe, read about El Al regarded by all who know about such things as the world's most secure airline. I doubt you'll agree with their tactics, but they have successfully thwarted dozens of hijackings and terrorist attempts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al

 

You’re doing precisely what I laid out in my previous post: purposely conflating two distinct issues for the benefit of your argument. No critic of profiling is discussing the “criminal investigative analysis” of investigating a specific crime. According to my understanding, that is the attempt to identify a perpetrator based on evidence and information pertinent to the crime, i.e. “the person who robbed the bank was a short white male with long black hair driving a red truck, therefore we should search for short white males with long black hair driving red trucks to find the back robber.” What I criticize is the use of race or ethnicity to assess the probability that a random person is a criminal. In this case, a crime is not being investigated, but persons are randomly and baselessly questioned and scrutinized due to their appearance as being more likely to be criminals, i.e. “this person is black, he’s probably a criminal, if he is questioned a crime will likely be solved.” You seem to agree with my criticism of this, but then subsequently advocate it.

 

I’m familiar with El Al. From my understanding, every passenger is interviewed by highly trained guards at three separate times before boarding, including before passengers even exit their vehicle. In these interviews, questioners look for signs of psychological duress, such as extreme nervousness, contradictory answers, etc., less than merely pleasing or “correct” answers. Every piece of luggage is inspected. The airport is littered with bomb proof receptacles for suspicious luggage that can be utilized instead of evacuation. The planes’ hulls are highly reinforced, cockpits are impenetrable, and undercover members of the Israeli security force sit throughout the plane.

 

None of those security features constitute profiling. However, according to the linked article, El Al is accused of profiling Arabs. If accusations are accurate, Arabs are isolated specifically due to their race alone and treated to more intense security procedures than any other passengers, i.e. “this person is Arab, he’s probably a terrorist, if he is questioned a bombing will more likely be averted.” This you have appeared to advocate in this thread several times and is what I label racial profiling. So, I will ask directly: do you consider this racial profiling, which you have called “simply racism”? If you do not consider this racial profiling, then how is this different from the simple racism of racial profiling?