What Exactly Is Wrong With Profiling?

[CatsCatsCats]

OK, you go your merry little way thinking that. Have a good day.

 

You're right there's nothing wrong with suspecting all middle-easterners on air planes of being terrorist. Why should they be allowed to ride on a plane in peace? Nevermind the fact that there have been terrorist in America of nearly all racial and ethnic backgrounds.:idunno:

[True blue (and gold)]

When 100% of all terrorist bombers flying on domestic airlines fit a specific "profile" it is PC foolishness not to accord others fitting that same profile added scrutiny.

 

I wonder if 100% of all white males pulling up to government buildings in U-Hauls get profiled? I wonder if 1% of them do?

[Run To State]

That wouldn't be profiling that would be matching a description to a T. If a thief has my complexion (not likely) is the same height & weight as me, and is wearing the same outfit by all means stop me. But most of the time that's not the case. Where do you come up with this stuff? That's about the most hypothetical of the hypothetical man.:idunno:

When crimes are committed, cops have little to go on, thats why profiling helps. Sometimes all someone can remember is hair color, skin color or height. That's the real world, just like if I'm in an area where people that look like me buy drugs then I get profiled. Where do I come up with this stuff? Reality, knowing cops, people that have been through it, experience....

[Run To State]

I wonder if 100% of all white males pulling up to government buildings in U-Hauls get profiled? I wonder if 1% of them do?

I would bet that would set off red flags immediately!

[Run To State]

You're right there's nothing wrong with suspecting all middle-easterners on air planes of being terrorist. Why should they be allowed to ride on a plane in peace? Nevermind the fact that there have been terrorist in America of nearly all racial and ethnic backgrounds.:idunno:

You conveniently forgot to add buying a one way ticket. After 9/11, you really think it should just be ignored? :idunno:

Middle-Easterners fly into and out of this country daily without being harassed, so...

[Fastbreak]

I wonder if 100% of all white males pulling up to government buildings in U-Hauls get profiled? I wonder if 1% of them do?

I would never presume to speak on behalf of all white males... hell, I can't even find consensus from a couple dozen of them on here. SO speaking strictly on behalf of myself, if I were to go pulling up in front of any federal building in a large truck of any kind especially a rental... I sure as there's a Heaven and a Hell would hope some federal agent armed to the teeth would politely ask me what my business was and could I show him what's inside. If I was there for legitimate reasons such as moving my dear mother out of her senate district office... no problem. If I was stupid enough to be there for rotten reasons I should expect them to step up their enforcement tactics accordingly. :thumb:

[True blue (and gold)]

I would never presume to speak on behalf of all white males... hell, I can't even find consensus from a couple dozen of them on here. SO speaking strictly on behalf of myself, if I were to go pulling up in front of any federal building in a large truck of any kind especially a rental... I sure as there's a Heaven and a Hell would hope some federal agent armed to the teeth would politely ask me what my business was and could I show him what's inside. If I was there for legitimate reasons such as moving my dear mother out of her senate district office... no problem. If I was stupid enough to be there for rotten reasons I should expect them to step up their enforcement tactics accordingly. :thumb:

 

I'm simply wondering if it happens. It's not necessarily something that I would expect any poster to know, but a point to ponder.

[CatsCatsCats]

When crimes are committed, cops have little to go on, thats why profiling helps. Sometimes all someone can remember is hair color, skin color or height. That's the real world, just like if I'm in an area where people that look like me buy drugs then I get profiled. Where do I come up with this stuff? Reality, knowing cops, people that have been through it, experience....

 

I just hate the thought of being watched by cops or anyone when I'm minding my own business and obeying the law. Like I said if someone looks like me, and has a description of wearing my clothes or driving the same car as I do, by all means stop me. If you're going to pull me over just because people of my race & age have been spotted in the neighborhood doing crime.

 

You conveniently forgot to add buying a one way ticket. After 9/11, you really think it should just be ignored? :idunno:

Middle-Easterners fly into and out of this country daily without being harassed, so...

 

Fine add in the one way ticket. Why is that suspicious? It's way more likely that they have a legit reason for that situation than being a terrorist. Yes, during 911 a group of middle-eastern terrorist hijacked planes, but Timothy McVeigh was a white guy and blew up the OKC buildings. Should cops stop every white person who has a truckfull of farming supplies?

[cammando]

I wonder if 100% of all white males pulling up to government buildings in U-Hauls get profiled? I wonder if 1% of them do?

Ever notice the blast barriers around federal buildings now? No trucks,trailers or vans are allowed past these without inspection... Besides McVeigh was mostly a lone wolf.. Not the same as large groups of terrorists or millions of illegals...

[True blue (and gold)]

Ever notice the blast barriers around federal buildings now? No trucks,trailers or vans are allowed past these without inspection... Besides McVeigh was mostly a lone wolf.. Not the same as large groups of terrorists or millions of illegals...

 

Actually, I haven't been to any federal buildings lately, so I was unaware that they all had this type of protection, which is a good thing.

 

As to your second point, this is what makes the situation so much worse. We're sitting on the porch with our guns pointed at the wolf off in the distance...not realizing that there is a already a bear inside behind us.

 

The word "terrorist" has become synonymous with "dark-haired, Middle Eastern Muslim." We forget that he can be a clean cut, ex-military white guy, too.

Edited April 25, 2010 by True blue (and gold)
word change

[Fastbreak]

I'm simply wondering if it happens. It's not necessarily something that I would expect any poster to know, but a point to ponder.

I can assure you it does happen. :thumb:

[True blue (and gold)]

I can assure you it does happen. :thumb:

 

How can you assure me? (I.e., how do you know?)

[Habib]

My posts 2, 47 and 56 touch on this. When you watch "Monk" "Sherlock Holmes" "Silence of the Lambs" "Murder She Wrote" "Psych" or virtually any other detective mystery, you watch the sleuth build a profile of the criminal. (Are we still allowed to call criminals "criminals" or does that hurt their feelings?)

 

When 100% of all terrorist bombers flying on domestic airlines fit a specific "profile" it is PC foolishness not to accord others fitting that same profile added scrutiny. That does not mean we waterboard them, beat them with hoses and taunt them with surly French epithets, but where is the logic in ignoring the clear facts and simply being more aware?

 

I understood this thread to be dealing with profiling at large, not simply the abuses of bona fide racism perpetrated under the ignorant guise of racial profiling. The two are not one and the same. To assert otherwise is ignorance perpetuating ignorance. This is what I was attributing to an agenda driven media, but if others want to join their folly, so be it.

 

Compiling features and characteristics of a specific criminal suspect into a "profile" and carrying out an investigation is not at issue. Using broad characteristics, such as race or ethnicity, to assess the probability that someone will be more likely to be involved in crime and then subjecting them to greater scrutiny is at issue. You conflate these two issues in an attempt to make those concerned about racial discrimination seem foolish for not wanting police to carry out the legitimate and necessary function of tracking suspects. You then detach the two to dismiss the racial calculus aspect and mitigate criticism of racial discrimination, as though assessing the criminal probability of random people based on their race or ethnicity is a media boogeyman, despite it being exactly what you are advocating.

 

Does using profiling in the sense of the second issue make anyone safer? The knowledge that Arabs or people with Islamic-based names are subject to increased scrutiny before boarding aircraft may make some people feel safer, but the reality is that those who wish to use an aircraft as a weapon are still able to. Even worse, those who wish to who do not fit that particular stereotype may more easily slide under the radar as they could be given the benefit of the doubt or no scrutiny at all. If you really want to make airline travel safer, make sure that no one can get an explosive device, weapon, or means to overtake the cockpit onto a plane. If that doesn't happen, then anything else merely provides a false sense of security and appeals to our most base instincts on race.

[True blue (and gold)]

Compiling features and characteristics of a specific criminal suspect into a "profile" and carrying out an investigation is not at issue. Using broad characteristics, such as race or ethnicity, to assess the probability that someone will be more likely to be involved in crime and then subjecting them to greater scrutiny is at issue. You conflate these two issues in an attempt to make those concerned about racial discrimination seem foolish for not wanting police to carry out the legitimate and necessary function of tracking suspects. You then detach the two to dismiss the racial calculus aspect and mitigate criticism of racial discrimination, as though assessing the criminal probability of random people based on their race or ethnicity is a media boogeyman, despite it being exactly what you are advocating.

 

Does using profiling in the sense of the second issue make anyone safer? The knowledge that Arabs or people with Islamic-based names are subject to increased scrutiny before boarding aircraft may make some people feel safer, but the reality is that those who wish to use an aircraft as a weapon are still able to. Even worse, those who wish to who do not fit that particular stereotype may more easily slide under the radar as they could be given the benefit of the doubt or no scrutiny at all. If you really want to make airline travel safer, make sure that no one can get an explosive device, weapon, or means to overtake the cockpit onto a plane. If that doesn't happen, then anything else merely provides a false sense of security and appeals to our most base instincts on race.

 

Excellent points, as usual.

[SKINPIG]

Compiling features and characteristics of a specific criminal suspect into a "profile" and carrying out an investigation is not at issue. Using broad characteristics, such as race or ethnicity, to assess the probability that someone will be more likely to be involved in crime and then subjecting them to greater scrutiny is at issue. You conflate these two issues in an attempt to make those concerned about racial discrimination seem foolish for not wanting police to carry out the legitimate and necessary function of tracking suspects. You then detach the two to dismiss the racial calculus aspect and mitigate criticism of racial discrimination, as though assessing the criminal probability of random people based on their race or ethnicity is a media boogeyman, despite it being exactly what you are advocating.

 

Does using profiling in the sense of the second issue make anyone safer? The knowledge that Arabs or people with Islamic-based names are subject to increased scrutiny before boarding aircraft may make some people feel safer, but the reality is that those who wish to use an aircraft as a weapon are still able to. Even worse, those who wish to who do not fit that particular stereotype may more easily slide under the radar as they could be given the benefit of the doubt or no scrutiny at all. If you really want to make airline travel safer, make sure that no one can get an explosive device, weapon, or means to overtake the cockpit onto a plane. If that doesn't happen, then anything else merely provides a false sense of security and appeals to our most base instincts on race.

 

Give every passenger a loaded 357 magnum when they board. I would be willing to bet flights would be more peaceful.