It happens both ways. A fine line between something that looks suspicious and racial profiling. I was pulled over near OTR for "having on a nice suit". I was dropping a friend off to pick up her car that was being worked on by a mechanic in OTR. Was pulled over by a Cincinnati city cop who asked me "what I was doing in this neighborhood, dressed in a nice suit?" When I told him I came here from work and was dropping off a friend to pick up her car, he proceeded to ask me if I was up here "looking to buy drugs?" He asked for my driver's license and registration, went back to his vehicle, I am assuming he ran my plates and came back and returned my driver's license and registration and said, "have a nice day."

 

Racial profiling? Probably. Harm done to me? None, other than it wasted about 10 minutes of my time. If I had pressed it, I am sure he had zero probable cause to pull me over. I just looked out of place to him by my clothing.

Exactly! You fit the profile of someone that buys drugs in that area and were questioned, as you should have been. As you noted, no harm was done. :thumb:

I think it would be very helpful to establish exactly what "profiling" is and isn't.

 

There's no doubt that a person's race, can play into it... but so can hair color, eye color, gender, preference for diet or regular soda, type of cigarettes they smoke, or the fact they don't smoke at all; height, weight, the kind of food they eat or the clothes or shoes they wear. There can dozens of things that go into each individual "profile" that essentially narrow the vast field of possible perpetrators the a relative handful of genuine culprits most likely.

 

To be fair, I can understand how individuals who have been haunted by a repeated pattern of persecution (whether real or apparent) based upon their skin tone or religion or any other single attribute, could see "profiling" as just another form of racism or discrimination... wrong in every instance. There can be no doubt that there are and have been ignorant or crooked cops who have abused a legitimate tool of deduction as nothing more than a way to harass and intimidate.

 

Racism, simply for the reasons of insecurity, fear or hatred for someone or something different is absolutely wrong and cannot be defended. The tool of profiling to separate the most likely perpetrators of a specific evil from nearly 7 billion possibilities is nothing more than that... a tool... neither good nor bad.

 

As I read this thread, the overwhelming negative is "racism" not actual "profiling".

Here is a great idea......

 

Why don't we just have one race......

 

 

Blonde hair & blue eye people.......... :confused:

 

I think someone tried this already................Hitler!!!!!!

 

 

We no longer live in a free society. They should have check points at every corner of the streets and if you are not white then you should have to give a DNA sample and take a polygraph test.

 

Also if you are black and just walking the street at 5am in downtown, you are more than likely are not exercising before work. So the police should be able to treat you like a king............ Rodney King.

 

Now I know the above statements are crazy, but so is this thread. If you think racial profiling isn't wrong then you don't believe in freedom.

 

Now I know it happens every day. But it is still wrong.

Here is a great idea......

 

Why don't we just have one race......

 

 

Blonde hair & blue eye people.......... :confused:

 

I think someone tried this already................Hitler!!!!!!

 

 

We no longer live in a free society. They should have check points at every corner of the streets and if you are not white then you should have to give a DNA sample and take a polygraph test.

 

Also if you are black and just walking the street at 5am in downtown, you are more than likely are not exercising before work. So the police should be able to treat you like a king............ Rodney King.

 

Now I know the above statements are crazy, but so is this thread. If you think racial profiling isn't wrong then you don't believe in freedom.

 

Now I know it happens every day. But it is still wrong.

See, this is what people on the left always do. They attach racial to profiling in order to turn it into what isn't intended. :ohbrother:

 

Try reading these two well thought out quotes and look at it for what it really is and not some left-wing talking point that we've all heard time and again.

 

Profiling... whether official policy or merely a tool subtly deployed by law enforcement is one of the single best weapons available for preventing, solving and generally fighting crime.

 

Whether we admit it or not, every single one of us "profile" daily. There is (what used to be called) common sense in doing so. A lone woman walking to her car after dark is generally not as alarmed being approached by an elderly lady using a walker as she might be by a large male in a hooded jacket. It's part learned knowledge, part instinct. Both individuals may be completely harmless and kind, but if one is intent upon wrongdoing, it's far more likely greater physical harm would come from the large male than the granny. Even though a woman may have experienced such a situation dozens of times with no negative outcome... to not be alert in such a scenario could be the difference between life and death, health and escape or a brutal outcome.

 

Certainly, there can be exceptions to all "profiles" but when the odds fall above 50%... much more so in the 90% and above range... NOT using profiling is foolish.

 

If terrorism was known to be coming from radicals in Scandinavia, NOT giving extra scrutiny to blonde haired, blue eyed, fair skinned individuals from that region and adhering to that set of socio-religious-political beliefs and practices, would be absolutely absurd.

 

The problem is, people confuse the basic concept and function of "profiling" with larger more heinous practices of racism, xenophobia, genocide and persecution. Using observational and deductive skills to determine the most likely perpetrators of crimes is vastly different from rounding up or persecuting people simply because they were born Jewish, or black or Japanese or Irish or…

 

I think it would be very helpful to establish exactly what "profiling" is and isn't.

 

There's no doubt that a person's race, can play into it... but so can hair color, eye color, gender, preference for diet or regular soda, type of cigarettes they smoke, or the fact they don't smoke at all; height, weight, the kind of food they eat or the clothes or shoes they wear. There can dozens of things that go into each individual "profile" that essentially narrow the vast field of possible perpetrators the a relative handful of genuine culprits most likely.

 

To be fair, I can understand how individuals who have been haunted by a repeated pattern of persecution (whether real or apparent) based upon their skin tone or religion or any other single attribute, could see "profiling" as just another form of racism or discrimination... wrong in every instance. There can be no doubt that there are and have been ignorant or crooked cops who have abused a legitimate tool of deduction as nothing more than a way to harass and intimidate.

 

Racism, simply for the reasons of insecurity, fear or hatred for someone or something different is absolutely wrong and cannot be defended. The tool of profiling to separate the most likely perpetrators of a specific evil from nearly 7 billion possibilities is nothing more than that... a tool... neither good nor bad.

 

As I read this thread, the overwhelming negative is "racism" not actual "profiling".

To me, the type of hat was irrelevant. As I said before the officer is presumed to be right no matter what. Some say they see or know how or why I feel the way I do. No they don't. No one who hasn't been through it and isn't a minority will ever know truly how it makes you feel.

 

It has happened to both of my sons. I grew in my knowledge of the how to handle these situations and I taught them.

 

There is hardly a week that goes by or when I see a police officer with someone pulled over that I don't think about this. It will be forever ingrained in my conscious.

 

So please don't try to patronize me by saying you know how I feel or you can understand it because believe me you don't.

If this has been a pattern throughout his life for NWO, ABSOLUTELY I agree.

From what he has indicated, it was one episode.

 

As someone mentioned earlier, I remember several times as a teenager, getting pulled over or having to have a conversation with a police officer because I was a teenager out at 2:00 or 3:00 AM in a small community. Wanted to know what I was doing?

 

Had a conversation with them and then moved on about our business.

 

Heck, when I was in my 30's, I was riding with my teen niece home from working concessions at a Reds ball game. It was about 2:00 AM and she drove a black, very nice, mustang. She was pulled over and they asked her the normal questions. When he saw our Sportservice logo clothing and the nacho cheese all over her shirt with our story of where we had been, sent us on our way.

 

I think she was pulled over for a black Mustang driving at 2:00 AM. He indicated she was weaving IN HER LANE but never crossed the center line.

 

You're naive if you believe that blacks have historically only been pulled over after midnight when you, me, and other whites have been questioned. You're 2 a.m. examples are irrelevant to the discussion. That's a universal truth.

To me, the type of hat was irrelevant. As I said before the officer is presumed to be right no matter what. Some say they see or know how or why I feel the way I do. No they don't. No one who hasn't been through it and isn't a minority will ever know truly how it makes you feel.

 

It has happened to both of my sons. I grew in my knowledge of the how to handle these situations and I taught them.

 

There is hardly a week that goes by or when I see a police officer with someone pulled over that I don't think about this. It will be forever ingrained in my conscious.

 

So please don't try to patronize me by saying you know how I feel or you can understand it because believe me you don't.

If you honestly believe you or your sons have been pulled over just because of the color of your skin then you owe it to yourselves to register a formal complaint to the police about the officer in question.

 

The hat could have been relevant if someone fitting your description was wearing a similar hat, I don't know. I do know that you're a very level headed individual, so I have no reason to doubt you. I just think it's possible that there could have been circumstances you weren't aware of.

What if a crime was just committed and you fit the description?

 

Sure it is, but in some areas certain races or age groups are the ones committing the vast majority of the crime. It would only make sense to profile those groups.

 

As I said, I was profiled as kid many, many times. Never once did I feel my rights were being infringed. You claim it's fine to question you if there is probable cause, yet you claim that it's not your job to solve crime and you're not going to take kindly to an officer stopping you because of the way you look, your age, or what you wear. I agree it's not your job to solve crime, but those last three things would fall into probable cause wouldn't they? So long as the criminal fit the criteria of those three things.

 

Do you know both sides? Does even nWo know the officers side?

 

Part A- Just because I would fit a description doesn't mean that I should have to be bothered by the police. Plenty of people fit the descriptions I would say.

 

Part B- Research shows that there is not one group that commit more crimes than the others. Studies also show that minority races are much more likely to make it on the news when they commit a crime. Just because the people you see on TV getting caught by a crime are a certain race doesn't mean that one race is more likely to commit a crime than another.

 

Part C- Wow I didn't know we were back in the 19th Century. Being a certain race is not a crime in America I don't think. How is the way someone dresses, their age, or their race probable cause? What are you talking about man? :lol:

 

As for NWO's story, the cop doesn't have a side IMO. NWO was getting a can of soda. Unless we some how went back to the days of the Antebellum South I don't know how he fit a description for a crime. What' suspicious about someone minding their own business and walking over to a pop machine? Please help me out there.:idunno:

 

 

Here is a great idea......

 

Why don't we just have one race......

 

 

Blonde hair & blue eye people.......... :confused:

 

I think someone tried this already................Hitler!!!!!!

 

 

We no longer live in a free society. They should have check points at every corner of the streets and if you are not white then you should have to give a DNA sample and take a polygraph test.

 

Also if you are black and just walking the street at 5am in downtown, you are more than likely are not exercising before work. So the police should be able to treat you like a king............ Rodney King.

 

Now I know the above statements are crazy, but so is this thread. If you think racial profiling isn't wrong then you don't believe in freedom.

 

Now I know it happens every day. But it is still wrong.

 

Nice way of putting it CB.:thumb:

Not only is nothing wrong with it, it should be a major focus of law enforecement education.

Part A- Just because I would fit a description doesn't mean that I should have to be bothered by the police. Plenty of people fit the descriptions I would say.

:lol: Can you imagine the outrage if someone that fit your description was "passed by" because the officer didn't want them to feel "bothered" and someone ended up murdered because of it?

 

Part B- Research shows that there is not one group that commit more crimes than the others. Studies also show that minority races are much more likely to make it on the news when they commit a crime. Just because the people you see on TV getting caught by a crime are a certain race doesn't mean that one race is more likely to commit a crime than another.

Oh really? Read this.

 

Part C- Wow I didn't know we were back in the 19th Century. Being a certain race is not a crime in America I don't think. How is the way someone dresses, their age, or their race probable cause? What are you talking about man? :lol:

Are you not paying attention or just being difficult? I explained that it depends on the area and who commits the crimes in general. It's really quite simple to figure out.

 

As for NWO's story, the cop doesn't have a side IMO. NWO was getting a can of soda. Unless we some how went back to the days of the Antebellum South I don't know how he fit a description for a crime. What' suspicious about someone minding their own business and walking over to a pop machine? Please help me out there.:idunno:

You actually don't see how one-sided you're being? It seems obvious to me that you have a deep mistrust of the police. Since we didn't get to hear the other side (the officers), how can we know why he was pulled over? So, according to you, the fact the the officer has a badge, IYO, he has no side of the story. Good to know.

Someone very close to me was pulled over just a few months ago and forced at gun point to lie spread eagle face down on cold pavement by the side of the road while the police went through his vehicle. He was not permitted to use his cell phone to call his parents. He could only obey the police.

 

Turns out, another person fitting his general description in a similar vehicle had just held up a C-store just a few miles away.

 

His dad works closely with law enforcement and security, and understands the dangers and challenges faced by police officers in today's culture. Other than the discomfort of being face down on cold pavement, no harm no foul. He chose not to push the issue further and used the situation as a learning experience for his son. Yes, "profiling" was involved. Yes, it was an unfortunate example of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, the kid had good training in how to respect and act toward law enforcement officials. No, the kid was not a minority. He just resembled the bad dude the cops were looking for. Eventually, they did catch the criminal, and presumably offended a few individuals that fit his profile in the process.

 

If the perp was known to be a caucasian male, the above process would have made absolutely no sense if the police were stopping elderly ladies, blacks, asians, hispanics, etc. in cars that didn't remotely resemble the known escape vehicle... yet that's what we do everyday in every airport across the nation. Essentially offending everyone, so we don't offend a few.

 

Nowhere in this thread have I stated that I understand what it is to endure the lifelong travails of being a minority. I do however know very clearly how it feels to be persecuted and discriminated against in certain circumstances or situations. I have expressed nothing but disdain for racism/racist practices.

 

Like it or not, race is only one aspect of correctly applied "profiling", the problem is when race becomes the sole focal point... or when inappropriate actions are applied because of one's race. My contention is, this is no longer "profiling" but simply racism... and we all seem to agree that racism is wrong.

There is a distinction between profiling and searching for specific suspects based on their description. Although, the latter is often used as a justification of the former. (There is a joke by a famous black comedian about the description officers must be given: “Calling all cars! Be on the lookout for a black male between 4'7'' and 6'8''. Between 120 and 380 pounds. He's wearing Nikes. Get this man!") Profiling based on race is arbitrary. It is an assumption that the skin color of a person is indicative of their likelihood to be involved with crime and that closer examination will reveal that to be true, despite the absence of probable cause to do so.

 

Say a black family moves into an affluent and predominately white subdivision. One of the men in the household decides to take a walk through the development one day to see his new neighborhood and enjoy his new surroundings. Say a police officer stops the man because he is suspicious of a black man walking in that particular area, begins questioning, asks for identification, perhaps even going further, detaining or arresting him as the man’s new address had not been updated on his license. This is not racism? As a minority, you could experience this, as your new neighbors casually stroll by, and not develop a jaded and cynical view of authority? This is freedom from arbitrary power celebrated and enshrined in America? At least one poster in this thread would consider this excellent police work. As loathsome as this example is, it only scratches the surface of the more nefarious uses of racial profiling and discrimination.

 

I think a better question might ask, what isn’t wrong with racial profiling?

Insurance underwriters have profiled for years. They call it risk assessment. I understand that these are private companies, not governments subject to constitutional restrictions. Many people say they aren't profiling, rather they are reacting to what their experiences have been. I don't see where that is wrong.

:lol: Can you imagine the outrage if someone that fit your description was "passed by" because the officer didn't want them to feel "bothered" and someone ended up murdered because of it?

 

Oh really? Read this.

 

Are you not paying attention or just being difficult? I explained that it depends on the area and who commits the crimes in general. It's really quite simple to figure out.

 

You actually don't see how one-sided you're being? It seems obvious to me that you have a deep mistrust of the police. Since we didn't get to hear the other side (the officers), how can we know why he was pulled over? So, according to you, the fact the the officer has a badge, IYO, he has no side of the story. Good to know.

 

Whatever man. The stats you brought up there just looked like it was more likely for the law to be enforced on minority races. The police have no side of the story in NWO's situation. What kind of story would they have? "Be on the lookout, there is a black male going around robbing pop machines all around town!!!". Racial profiling is wrong and there is no possible way of justifying it in my mind.

 

And I don't have much for a cop that is going to profile. Being suspicious of black males in a prodominantly white neighborhood is stupid....Segregation ended quite a while ago. Thinking that every latino person you see who's speaking spanish is an illegal immigrant is being a bigot. Attaching any stereotype to anyone you don't know is crazy. Profiling is UnAmerican.

There is a distinction between profiling and searching for specific suspects based on their description. Although, the latter is often used as a justification of the former. (There is a joke by a famous black comedian about the description officers must be given: “Calling all cars! Be on the lookout for a black male between 4'7'' and 6'8''. Between 120 and 380 pounds. He's wearing Nikes. Get this man!") Profiling based on race is arbitrary. It is an assumption that the skin color of a person is indicative of their likelihood to be involved with crime and that closer examination will reveal that to be true, despite the absence of probable cause to do so.

 

Say a black family moves into an affluent and predominately white subdivision. One of the men in the household decides to take a walk through the development one day to see his new neighborhood and enjoy his new surroundings. Say a police officer stops the man because he is suspicious of a black man walking in that particular area, begins questioning, asks for identification, perhaps even going further, detaining or arresting him as the man’s new address had not been updated on his license. This is not racism? As a minority, you could experience this, as your new neighbors casually stroll by, and not develop a jaded and cynical view of authority? This is freedom from arbitrary power celebrated and enshrined in America? At least one poster in this thread would consider this excellent police work. As loathsome as this example is, it only scratches the surface of the more nefarious uses of racial profiling and discrimination.

 

I think a better question might ask, what isn’t wrong with racial profiling?[/QUOTE]

 

Thank you.