What might KY football realignment look like?

[leatherneck]

Help me to perhaps understand and perhaps agree with the idea of creating the 2 16 team classes when the other 4 classes with be divided evenly. Is the rationale (at least for 6A) nothing other than a blatant attempt to remove as many teams as possible from having to compete against X and T and win state? If that is the rationale, do we find ourselves on that very slippery slope of trying to gerrymander classes based on frequency of state championships won? If too many independent public schools win football championships, do we further amend the classifications because of that? Same goes with private schools winning too many football championships in the non-6A classes if that starts happening in the future?

 

Or is it just an attempt to try to more evenly divide teams in classes based on size than splitting the teams evenly between the 6 classes? If so, should the classes be divided by a common percentage of differention between the largest team in each class and the smallest team in each class so that the size differentiation would be the same in each class? Based on Ryan's revised numbers that used only male enrollments, the largest team in the 16 team 6A class is 171% of the enrollment of the smallest team in that class; in 5A, the largest is 153% of the enrolment of the smallest; in 4A, the largest is 128% of the enrollment of the smallest; in 3A, the largest is 140% of the enrollment of the smallest; in 2A, the largest is 192% of the smallest; and in 1A, the largest is 239% of the smallest team in that class.

 

That's probably better in most classes than the current "divide them evenly" method, but to the extent size matters (and I have to assume that's the underlying justification for the discussed plan), it's still "easier" for the smallest school in 4A to win state than it is for the smallest school in any other class to win state. Should we consider dividing the teams so that the differentiation of size (by percentage) is the same in each class, which would result in the teams being divided unevenly amongst the classes, but not be binded by 16 in the smallest and 16 in the largest?

 

Not suggesting any thing, just throwing out thoughts.

[Rockstar]

If this 1A alignment is true, then Bellevue's only real competition for a state championship each year would be Dayton and Frankfort.

 

Good news for all you Tiger Fans!!

[westsider]

If this 1A alignment is true, then Bellevue's only real competition for a state championship each year would be Dayton and Frankfort.

 

Good news for all you Tiger Fans!!

Maybe you shouldn't overlook Holy Cross and Campbellsville.

[Voice of Reason]

IMO ... Hazard would be the perennial favorite in the new smaller 1A. Using boys enrollment of 143 puts Hazard in 1A.

[statmanhensley]

If this is what he likes. I think it would make more since travel wise

 

District 1 - Fulton Co. , Fulton City, Lou. Holy Cross, Campbellsville

 

District 2 - Bellevue, Dayton, Eminence, Frankfort

 

District 3 - Paris, Fairview, Paintsville, Williamsburg

 

District 4- Phelps, Harlan, Jenkins, Pineville

 

 

Now I say this just looking at the state map and not taking in how highways are built. Either way it is a long drive.

 

 

 

Looks fine but from a logistical standpoint, Williamsburg would need to be in D4 while Phelps would need to be in D3. The Burg is much much much closer to Harlan, Jenkins and Pineville....just as Phelps would be to Paintsville and maybe Fairview, maybe.

 

 

I personally think they should make Class 1A an eight-man classification...this would open up more opportunities for schools who otherwise wouldn't be able to field a team...if that were to happen I would be all for allowing schools to play up in an 11-man district.

[3wishes]

Male and Manual are the two biggest winners in this move, a move to 5A that is.

[Fishhead]

Interesting that if you go strictly by the numbers, 4A NKY has a natural four team district with Cooper, CovCath, Highlands and Holmes.

[UK fball fan]

As 3wishes said, Ernst did not use male enrollment to break this down. If you use male enrollment for example, Hazard and Ludlow will drop to 1A and Dayton and Phelps go up to 2A.

 

I think the deal breaker in this plan may be travel for 1A schools. Although with a class that small, you don't need to play district games so that could remove the travel burden. Then the challenge may be scheduling for those small schools.

 

At first blush, I don't like it. I would like to hear from the 1A schools under this proposal ... Do you like it? Would you like to win a state title in a 16 team class? I don't think I would like that if I were one of those small schools.

 

I think the KHSAA would have to give some consideration to allowing teams with a long geographic disadvantage, like Fulton Co and Fulton City, the opportunity to opt up a level...With Highlands, they would also be at a geographical disadvantage in 3a, so, they should also take there situation into consideration, but, overall, I like it...

[3wishes]

This is what I came up with. I used only this past year's boys enrollments (and this year will be a part of the process - not sure if it will be averaged with 08/09 or 10/11), made a rough estimate of the impact of Martha Layne Collins and South Warren (straight split of the number Shelby County had which was 952, 35% of Greenwood's number into South Warren and taking 50 boys from the Warren Central total), and included the special movements up in class that we've had in the past (Highlands, CovCath, Russellville, East Carter - can't remember any others).

 

The number beside the school is their male enrollment. As the KHSAA does when they do realignment, the number is doubled for all-male schools.

 

6A:

St. Xavier 2,912

Trinity (Louisville) 2,762

Scott County 1,142

Henry Clay 1,122

Eastern 1,113

Paul Laurence Dunbar 1,073

Henderson County 1,028

Lafayette 991

PRP 949

Bryan Station 945

Madison Central 888

Central Hardin 869

George Rogers Clark 855

Daviess County 849

Ballard 840

Tates Creek 833

Male 831

Seneca 819

DuPont Manual 804

Simon Kenton 798

Boone County 793

Ryle 786

Meade County 778

Butler 769

Campbell County 739

Muhlenberg County 731

Oldham County 730

Southern 723

Dixie Heights 722

Marshall County 720

Nelson County 720

North Hardin 709

Fern Creek 704

Graves County 700

North Laurel 689

Apollo 683

Christian County 672

 

5A:

Iroquois 668

Grayson County 666

Barren County 660

Bullitt Central 649

South Laurel 645

Montgomery County 643

Pulaski County 642

North Bullitt 637

Conner 636

Harlan County 620

Whitley County 620

Jeffersontown 619

Anderson County 613

Woodford County 613

Bullitt East 611

John Hardin 610

South Oldham 601

Logan County 590

Greenwood 903

Lincoln County 576

Southwestern 573

DeSales 572

Ohio County 571

Grant County 559

Scott 556

East Jessamine 549

Bowling Green 545

Fairdale 540

Franklin County 536

Madison Southern 534

West Jessamine 530

Perry County Central 525

Hopkinsville 524

Madisonville-North Hopkins 522

Atherton 514

Owensboro 514

Mercer County 509

Covington Catholic 496

Highlands 425

 

 

4A:

Hopkins County Central 508

Knox Central 501

Johnson Central 499

Marion County 499

Clay County 498

Cooper 495

Calloway County 494

Letcher County Central 493

Warren Central 492

Greenup County 489

Lone Oak 485

Waggener 485

Harrison County 482

Doss 481

Shelby County 476

Martha Layne Collins 476

Boyle County 469

Ashland Blazer 466

Spencer County 465

Pendleton County 464

Warren East 463

Western 462

Valley 458

Allen County-Scottsville 454

North Oldham 454

Breckinridge County 446

Rockcastle County 446

Taylor County 442

Rowan County 441

Boyd County 440

Moore 440

Franklin-Simpson 437

Russell County 436

Lexington Catholic 429

Holmes 425

East Carter 419

 

3A:

McCreary Central 417

Mason County 415

Bourbon County 412

Bell County 404

Garrard County 402

Paducah Tilghman 397

Fleming County 393

Corbin 388

Pike County Central 385

Western Hills 382

Lawrence County 380

Fort Campbell 379

East Ridge 378

Lewis County 378

Central 376

Powell County 375

Casey County 373

Edmonson County 373

Knott County Central 373

Wayne County 370

Estill County 369

Adair County 368

South Warren 366

Hart County 366

LaRue County 365

Elizabethtown 362

Magoffin County 362

Henry County 356

Belfry 355

Sheldon Clark 353

Monroe County 341

Jackson County 334

Morgan County 328

Shelby Valley 328

Heath 325

Trigg County 325

Russellville 167

 

2A:

Union County 325

Caldwell County 322

West Carter 322

Webster County 320

Bath County 317

Russell 311

Christian Academy-Louisville 309

Bardstown 303

Carroll County 299

Glasgow 299

Lloyd Memorial 290

Owen County 290

Butler County 289

Shawnee 287

Washington County 284

Green County 278

Danville 277

Todd County Central 276

Leslie County 272

Breathitt County 265

Prestonsburg 264

Newport 260

Reidland 253

Gallatin County 250

Holy Cross (Covington) 250

Hancock County 244

Walton-Verona 243

Metcalfe County 239

Middlesboro 237

Lexington Christian 231

Trimble County 231

Murray 230

Somerset 230

Fort Knox 226

McLean County 225

Betsy Layne 213

 

1A:

Newport Central Catholic 211

Owensboro Catholic 211

Clinton County 210

Crittenden County 208

Allen Central 206

Ballard Memorial 198

Beechwood 197

Nicholas County 191

Bishop Brossart 190

Mayfield 188

Bracken County 187

Pikeville 182

Berea 178

Lynn Camp 170

South Floyd 160

Phelps 157

Raceland 155

Dayton 151

Bethlehem 149

Fairview 148

Ludlow 148

Campbellsville 146

Kentucky Country Day 144

Hazard 143

Holy Cross (Louisville) 128

Frankfort 127

Caverna 126

Harlan 122

Bellevue 121

Paintsville 117

Pineville 106

Fulton County 103

Paris 102

Jenkins 101

Williamsburg 99

Fulton City 73

Eminence 62

Rose Hill 30

 

There are 223 schools in this. The KHSAA divides that evenly across 6 classes. If the number does not divide perfectly even, they add one to the number beginning with the lowest class. In this case, 222/6 = 37, so the extra school goes into the 1A class, giving them 38 to begin with. NewCath and Owensboro Catholic had an identical number, so I placed them both in 1A. When teams move up in class (like Highlands and CovCath), I don't believe the lowest teams in the class get moved down, so I left those teams put. For instance, Owensboro and Mercer County are the lowest in 5A, but don't move down to 4A just because Highlands and CovCath move up in class to 5A. I think that's how that works.

 

With the new statement coming from Mr. Tackett this week, is this what 2011 could realistically look like?

[Voice of Reason]

Interesting that if you go strictly by the numbers, 4A NKY has a natural four team district with Cooper, CovCath, Highlands and Holmes.

 

Pendleton County may go into that district also.

 

Tackett is talking about making the top and bottom classes 16 teams. That would change things up if it happens.

[UK fball fan]

Rather than going with largest 16 teams, I'd rather see a Metro League with 16 teams comprised of the largest 16 teams from Louisville and Lexington:

 

St X

Trinity

Male

PRP

Eastern

Manual

Southern

Fern Creek

Seneca

Butler

Ballard

Dunbar

HClay

Lafayette

TCreek

BStation

 

Then split the remaining 5 classes with a minimum of 32 per class with the privates having to use a 1.5 factor in detemining enrollment. Have the max teams in any particular class cut off at 48 teams using a minimum 32 and if there's no more than a 150% increase from the largest school to the smallest school in each class, not to exceed 48 teams.

[Getslow]

Could someone explain how this works to me? I'm not very well-versed with re-alignment procedures. When you say that all-male schools have their enrollments doubled for purposes of re-alignment, what is the function of that process? Under DragonFire's procedures, that put DeSales into 5A, playing against schools with male enrollments considerably larger than their own. Do they redo alignment afterwards to more accurately reflect the advantages of all-male schools? I'm afraid I just don't get it. Thanks in advance for anyone who can clear this up.

[leatherneck]

Could someone explain how this works to me? I'm not very well-versed with re-alignment procedures. When you say that all-male schools have their enrollments doubled for purposes of re-alignment, what is the function of that process? Under DragonFire's procedures, that put DeSales into 5A, playing against schools with male enrollments considerably larger than their own. Do they redo alignment afterwards to more accurately reflect the advantages of all-male schools? I'm afraid I just don't get it. Thanks in advance for anyone who can clear this up.

 

Years ago, enrollment was based on total school size (girls and boys). All boy schools had their enrollment doubled to be able to compare apples to apples. However, the KHSAA no longer uses total school size for football classes, which some people sometimes forget and creates some confusion. They only use male enrollment and there is no doubling of any thing. Hope that helps.

[goaheadandjump]

If this 1A alignment is true, then Bellevue's only real competition for a state championship each year would be Dayton and Frankfort.

 

Good news for all you Tiger Fans!!

 

Really? First I would think the class 1A schools would be screaming about this as this is not conducive to travel or to coming up with a 10 game schedule. Secondly unless you are winning state championships currently I would think everybody would be competition.

[DragonFire]

Years ago, enrollment was based on total school size (girls and boys). All boy schools had their enrollment doubled to be able to compare apples to apples. However, the KHSAA no longer uses total school size for football classes, which some people sometimes forget and creates some confusion. They only use male enrollment and there is no doubling of any thing. Hope that helps.

 

I see I mixed my procedures. I knew that it was male enrollment only, but when I read their handbook - http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/tournamentrules/fbtournamentrules.pdf - they still haven't changed the wording. It does still say in there:

 

The Board of Control shall ensure that an upward adjustment is made for the enrollment of a school with less than a full high school course, and for schools enrolling boys only (double).

 

But above that it talks about total enrollment, not male only. I read the part about doubling without accounting for the fact it is male only now. The handbook also says the state shall be divided into four classes even though it then lists six, so there's several things they need to audit.

 

What that means for my enrollment is that where you see male only schools, cut them in half and slot them down. Where you move them down, push another team into the next class.