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"End of Bowden Era This Year", says FSU's Jim Smith

swamprat

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DragonFire

DragonFire

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My anger is that you made this personal by attacking me. I said nothing bad or out of the way before that. You're making this into a coaching thing, when I was stating recruiting or it is just a personal attack. It's one of the two. Either you didn't understand what I was saying or you went out of your way to take a shot. I don't know how anyone will do there after BB leaves, I'd just go after someone that has proven to do more with less. Peterson can match wits with the best of them, and doesn't have the talent to do so. I'm not saying that I wouldn't take Richt over Shannon as to who is the better coach, though I'll take Shannon over Jimbo in a heartbeat.

 

It was never intended as a personal attack, only that I think you're starting to blow out of proportion what is happening in Miami this year. I also think you're seeing some advantage in recruiting that I simply don't believe exists. Urban Meyer came from Utah of all places and does just fine in recruiting. It's not the school, it's the coach. That's the argument you're making with Bowden, I don't see why you wouldn't believe it would extend to a coach like Mark Richt. I have in no way disagreed with you on Jimbo. I really don't know how that's going to go, and that's what almost certainly is going to happen. If he becomes HC, then yes, I can see a hit in recruiting, which may take some time to recover from. Where I started to get nauseous was the notion that Mark Richt would not come in and be as successful recruiting-wise as Randy Shannon is/was. I just happen to believe that is baseless. Richt has consistently brought in top 5 classes and is a more proven coach and recruiter than Randy Shannon.

 

As for the rest of the post, my point is, that while at this moment Miami is much closer to regaining it all, you can see how fickle that can be. It was no time ago that pretty much anyone would have said it was Florida State and not Miami that was closer. In fact is was really just over a month ago that that would have been said. It's so fickle that if Florida State catches that pass in the end zone and wins that game, people would probably still feel the same way, even with two wins over ranked teams for Miami.

 

Is it Miami's fault that OU's players were hurt, FSU's program is in rapid decline, Georgia Tech is a fraud? No, it's not. Miami can only play the opponents in front of them. But at the same time, that should give you some pause about just how much you read into those results. You're pointing out massive, massive flaws in every single one of their wins. I feel like you want to focus on the good side of it (they were all ranked at the time), rather than the bad (two are not nearly as good as advertised and one is playing at about 70% of what they're capable of). Were your three players that were out in the Virginia Tech game worth 24 points? Who knows. But I dang sure will bet you Bradford was worth more than 1.

 

Future-wise, fair or not, it's not going to impress me all that much when Miami starts running roughshod over the likes of UCF, Florida A&M, Virginia, etc. Miami does not have another legitimate opponent until November when they have to travel to North Carolina, and won't play an opponent I think is really capable of beating them until they play South Florida at the end of November. Fair or not, I probably won't pass full judgement on Miami until then. Should they lose to one of these teams, it will be very easy to pass judgment, again, fair or not.

 

To close back on topic, I think Bowden is done after this year. Jimbo will probably be coach next year. That will probably leave FSU third behind the other two for the immediate future. But that's just an assumption. We have no idea what potential negatives or benefits may come about. A lot of players really take to a coach that is more hands on, which Bowden is decidedly not any more. I expect that a lot of life will be injected in the program as there will be staff turnover and a new direction in a lot of ways. Whether that is enough to stabilize the program quickly is anyone's guess. But if I had my choice, I would love it if they went after Richt instead, and I would love it if he accepted. If Mark Richt were the next coach, I would tell you that FSU would be back extremely soon.

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CatsCatsCats

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It was never intended as a personal attack, only that I think you're starting to blow out of proportion what is happening in Miami this year. I also think you're seeing some advantage in recruiting that I simply don't believe exists. Urban Meyer came from Utah of all places and does just fine in recruiting. It's not the school, it's the coach. That's the argument you're making with Bowden, I don't see why you wouldn't believe it would extend to a coach like Mark Richt. I have in no way disagreed with you on Jimbo. I really don't know how that's going to go, and that's what almost certainly is going to happen. If he becomes HC, then yes, I can see a hit in recruiting, which may take some time to recover from. Where I started to get nauseous was the notion that Mark Richt would not come in and be as successful recruiting-wise as Randy Shannon is/was. I just happen to believe that is baseless. Richt has consistently brought in top 5 classes and is a more proven coach and recruiter than Randy Shannon.

 

As for the rest of the post, my point is, that while at this moment Miami is much closer to regaining it all, you can see how fickle that can be. It was no time ago that pretty much anyone would have said it was Florida State and not Miami that was closer. In fact is was really just over a month ago that that would have been said. It's so fickle that if Florida State catches that pass in the end zone and wins that game, people would probably still feel the same way, even with two wins over ranked teams for Miami.

 

Is it Miami's fault that OU's players were hurt, FSU's program is in rapid decline, Georgia Tech is a fraud? No, it's not. Miami can only play the opponents in front of them. But at the same time, that should give you some pause about just how much you read into those results. You're pointing out massive, massive flaws in every single one of their wins. I feel like you want to focus on the good side of it (they were all ranked at the time), rather than the bad (two are not nearly as good as advertised and one is playing at about 70% of what they're capable of). Were your three players that were out in the Virginia Tech game worth 24 points? Who knows. But I dang sure will bet you Bradford was worth more than 1.

 

Future-wise, fair or not, it's not going to impress me all that much when Miami starts running roughshod over the likes of UCF, Florida A&M, Virginia, etc. Miami does not have another legitimate opponent until November when they have to travel to North Carolina, and won't play an opponent I think is really capable of beating them until they play South Florida at the end of November. Fair or not, I probably won't pass full judgement on Miami until then. Should they lose to one of these teams, it will be very easy to pass judgment, again, fair or not.

 

To close back on topic, I think Bowden is done after this year. Jimbo will probably be coach next year. That will probably leave FSU third behind the other two for the immediate future. But that's just an assumption. We have no idea what potential negatives or benefits may come about. A lot of players really take to a coach that is more hands on, which Bowden is decidedly not any more. I expect that a lot of life will be injected in the program as there will be staff turnover and a new direction in a lot of ways. Whether that is enough to stabilize the program quickly is anyone's guess. But if I had my choice, I would love it if they went after Richt instead, and I would love it if he accepted. If Mark Richt were the next coach, I would tell you that FSU would be back extremely soon.

 

1. My thing with Meyer being a good recruiter, is that he wins. Not in a normal since, like a Richt or Stoops, etc. Meyer wins big, probably bigger than anyone else going right now. He took Utah to the BCS and won, he' won two titles at UF in just 4 years. I don't think it is fair to say that anyone is going to have that kind of impact. Also package in the fact that he runs a very good and "cool" offense, and along with alot of other things, it was just a perfect marriage between a good school and probably the best coach in America.

2. I think the thing that kept Miami back in peoples minds was not knowing how good or bad of a coach Shannon was. You look at Miami last year or the year before and you could see nothing special on first glance. But, you also had alot of youth playing, and the plays that were made were usually made by these players. Miami snuck into the conversation, but I don't think anyone thought there was a lack of talent in Coral Gables.

3. I do give a pause, especially after the VT game. Like I said, I think if it was played over it would be alot closer, but no matter the excuse that game showed that Miami wasn't at the level of an Alabama or USC, yet. As fans we can buy into the hype, but I do understand that this is an extremely young team. I would have said before the season, and I say now that Miami will be one of the better teams in the country next year (as long as things stay as they are, meaning no huge problems or controversy). And I'd say they are one of the 15 best in the country this season. That's not saying much, I think that there are few teams (maybe 3?) this year that are actually really good at all.

4. Though this schedule isn't as tough as it looks when you break it down, it's still impressive. It's like you're saying that anyone could have done it. I don't know about that. Sure teams like UF would have had little trouble, but UF is a very experienced team. How would the '07 Gators have faired? That is the standard I hold these Canes to. They aren't an Elite team, but they are building on it. Talent-wise, they might be in the top handful of teams, but they aren't ready to take the next step.

5. Richt really doesn't impress me that much. I like to see FSU do well, and he's not going to get them back to the top. He's had the teams to challenge and do it at Georgia, and hasn't been able to. It seems like he always loses the big games. Sure he did finally beat UF in '07 but that wasn't a good Gators team, well it wasn't an experienced Gators team. I know Georgia is the winniniest team in the SEC this decade, but that's really out of the other teams falling off for periods or building up. Recruiting-wise he has a longer sample-size than Shannon, but I think ignoring what RS has been able to do in the short term, with an unsuccessful team is just unrealistic, especially when Shannon's main competition comes from Meyer who's team is the best in the country at the moment, and the legendary Bobby Bowden.

6. With everything that has gone on at FSU, their recruiting is going to take a hit. If Bowden is forced out, the media is going to crucify FSU, and they should.

7. I really don't care one way or the other what FSU does when it comes down to it. I want them to be good because it's good for college football. My favorite team, is on the right track and I would have said that before this start to the season, so what FSU does with their coaching staff really doesn't phase Miami at all and really it never has.

8. Before FSU worries about not being 3rd rate in Florida, they should probably worry about USF passing them as they continue to build their program. Heck, might not be too long before USF passes the U as well.

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jvdfc

jvdfc

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Do you not think that FSU recruiting is going to take a hit? I wasn't saying anything about whoever they bring in as a coach, though I think Jimbo will prove to be terrible.

 

I think it is obvious to say that with a new coach and all of this drama, FSU is going to be the 3rd choice for most FL. recruits. Really not too far-fetched there.

 

As for Miami, most though they'd be 0-4 or 1-3 right now. They are extremely young, most likely the youngest or at least most inexperienced team in the top 25.

 

For the FSU game, here are a few of my thoughts.

1. FSU wasn't as bad then. They aren't bad now, but they do have a lot, and I MEAN ALOT of issues going on right now. It has gotten worse over the weeks, so while those issues still existed then they weren't at this magnitude.

2. That really wasn't the same Miami team either. They start plenty of sophomores and play many frosh, and it was also their first game with a new OC and a new DC. So winning against a BCS conference team is pretty impressive under those circumstances, especially since a true soph QB was making his 3rd career start and 1st on the road.

3. Rivalry game, it's going to be closer than it should.

 

And Miami is much closer than FSU to gaining back some prestige and winning ways. Miami has it's coach, two cordinators that they like, a QB, and plenty of youthful playmakers. FSU has a good QB, IMO, and some playmakers, but their coaching, whether good or bad in anyone's opinion, is fractured and they seem to be crumbling as a program.

 

As a Miami fan I see a team that is 3-1 and through with the toughest part of their schedule. Is it their fault that OU's players were hurt, FSU's program is in rapid decline, Georgia Tech is a fraud?

 

Alot of things played into the VT game. VT is the better team this year, but I don't think they are 31-7, absolute beatdown better. But what can you do? Should we claim injuries like other teams? We didn't lose a Heisman winner, but highly touted DT Marcus Forston was out, along with 2 other starters on the defensive line. You don't see people pointing that out, and really it doesn't matter. It's still a W or an L in the wins/losses column.

 

As a Miami fan I also see a bunch of young talent that is going to continue to get better. I see a defense that is going to bring back 9 starters, with the two that are graduating being replaced by more talented (though less experienced) players. I see a very good OC, players buying into what the DC is saying, and good recruits coming in. I'm not looking at just this season, Miami's better days are ahead, unless some circumstances change.

 

It still goes back to the fact that what I was saying is that....

 

Bobby does and would have better success on the recruiting trail in FL than Richt or Jimbo, if they are competing with Urban Meyer and Randy Shannon.

 

I don't see what's wrong with saying that. It's just my opinion, but hopefully one of those two take over and we can see. I didn't say that those guys weren't respectable, but much of recruiting for the Big 3 in FL comes from South FL. Randy Shannon is a man that understands SFL, is from SFL, and like I said about his life story, he can relate to just about anyone no matter how wild their home lives are or aren't.

 

You really made more of this than what it was. If you think Jimbo is going to outrecruit RS, fine it's your right. Don't take it as me saying "Oh the U is so good, no other team holds a candle to them, Randy Shannon is the greatest coach ever", because that's not what I said. Shannon has a track record, albeit a short one, of being able to recruit with the best of them. Who has ever heard of bringing in the number 1 class in the country following a 5-7 season? Kiffin is about as close of an example to that as I can think of.

 

As for the bolded, Meyer has only lost once to Richt, so there goes that argument. Richt has won 2 of the last 5, with one of those coming against Ron Zook. RZ UF teams weren't that good. Richt is a fine coach, and just strictly COACHING he would most likely coach the pants off Randy Shannon. Recruiting-wise, I don't know, but I'm taking Shannon. He's had classes around and once rated above Richts the last 3 seasons, and Miami hasn't sniffed success. If the love and wins continue to come common sense would tell you that his recruiting will only improve. Richt would still recruit well, he moved to FL before graduating HS, but I'm still going to take RS and Meyer for recruiting in FL.

 

My anger is that you made this personal by attacking me. I said nothing bad or out of the way before that. You're making this into a coaching thing, when I was stating recruiting or it is just a personal attack. It's one of the two. Either you didn't understand what I was saying or you went out of your way to take a shot. I don't know how anyone will do there after BB leaves, I'd just go after someone that has proven to do more with less. Peterson can match wits with the best of them, and doesn't have the talent to do so. I'm not saying that I wouldn't take Richt over Shannon as to who is the better coach, though I'll take Shannon over Jimbo in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

Shocker there!:isurrender:

 

Just because I agree with the post and would like to see Richt at FSU? :clap:

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CoachBuckett

CoachBuckett

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As a big FSU fan if Bowden gives it up I am good. At the same time if the leadership holds a meeting and ask him to give it up I am good as well because college football is a business. But, let Bowden go out with his head up and not some joker running off at the mouth that don't know the difference between a QB and a pulling Gaurd.(JIM SMITH)

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CatsCatsCats

CatsCatsCats

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Leavitt Stands Up for Bowden

 

Bulls' coach says the way Florida State has handled Bowden's situation is 'sad' and 'embarrassing.'

 

Sad and embarrassing is the only way to put it. As outsiders we can see that Bowden has been done for a while, but, FSU owes so much to Bowden and he should be able to coach there until his dying breath if he so chooses. I hope FSU gets what they asked for. I hope Bowden decides that he WANTS to leave, and Jimbo takes over. That way we can see exactly what they are pushing a coaching legend out the door for. Even if Jimbo is the next great HC in the NCAA, you simply do not treat a legend like this.

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BigSpikes

BigSpikes

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Just for the record:

 

Mark Richt has only beat Urban Meyer once, that was in 2007, in 2004 Florida was no where near running roughshod over anyone.

 

Richt is not the answer IMO, he's done his time at Georgia and done a very nice job, but I don't think he could compete with Urban or Shannon in terms of recruiting, Urban has virtually put a fence up in Florida and Shannon looks to be the only person that could tear it down.

 

Florida State should go young IMO, they should go after Chris Petersen. I think this guy will eventually be Pete Carroll on steroids.

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