Hoover High Investigation

[firstregionking]

Wasn't there an article basically accusing Saint Xavier and Trinity of doing this a couple of weeks ago?

 

Listen, any program that's largely successful for any length of time is very, very shady to say the least. The only one that I'm almost certain is clean is the DeLasalle program in California.

 

I love high school sports but I find it very offensive that schools poor in so much money to their athletics and simply ignore other aspects such as academics, fine arts, and music.

[BucksFan]

Wasn't there an article basically accusing Saint Xavier and Trinity of doing this a couple of weeks ago?

 

Listen, any program that's largely successful for any length of time is very, very shady to say the least. The only one that I'm almost certain is clean is the DeLasalle program in California.

 

I love high school sports but I find it very offensive that schools poor in so much money to their athletics and simply ignore other aspects such as academics, fine arts, and music.

 

I have to disagree with that program. I can list numerous programs that are successful for many number of years that are not shady in the least bit.

[theguru]

firstregionking,

 

That is why I brought up Colerain, because they not only do it right but they are a public school.

 

Also, you really need to go read the article you mentioning about St. X and Trinity. The article is all rumor and innuendo.

[Buffalo Gap]

Colerain is a public school too.

 

The point is, for the most part the large public schools in KY greatly underachieve in football.

 

I agree. Considering the size of some of these schools (enrollment wise), the surrounding communities, etc., you would think that a great deal of public schools would do better than they do, statewide, in terms of football....

 

...Sad part about it, that happens to fall a HUGE deal on the administration and small town politics at some of these schools. For example, I know for an absolute FACT, that a couple football teams across the state have to almost have an ACT OF CONGRESS to be able to raise any LARGE amount of money without there being some kind of IN DEPTH/FBI like investigation to make sure that everything is "ok". On the other hand, politically correct or not, teams within these same schools like Soccer (girls and boys), Tennis, etc. could go out and raise, say, $3,000 and EVERYBODY (aka Administration) just ends up being, "Well, that is great for you all. That's awesome! Good for you!!" Now, if football was all of the sudden to just to raise that amount, you better believe that things will end up being looked into.

 

This same football program also has to A) Take their money made from football gates and throw it into a pot where it is divided "fairly" and/or B) Football splits the gate with another sport in that particular home game and 1 and/or two other sports get money from the concessions. Now, I would like to know if Colerain, Hoover or any other big time public school football program has to deal with crap like that, to that extent?! My guess is no.

 

I know one thing for sure, originally, when Marty Jaggers took the job at Mercer County (before the merger) in 2005, his football budget was a certain amount, a year later in 2006, after the merger and 30 more players were immediately added...those IN CHARGE decided to only bump up the football budget another $1,000!!??? Now, does everybody out there know what $1,000 could go towards, with helmets costing $100-$200, shoulder pads from $150-$300, etc.?! I think you all can figure out the math and realize how much sense that DOESN'T make.

 

Bottom line is this, the state of Kentucky, as a whole with public schools, want successful football programs...but, talk is cheap. Like you said Guru, Colerain, Hoover, etc. (their administrations) made a decision to build a top knotch football program and look what it has done for both schools as a whole!! Thing is, most of us, as outsiders don't even know half of what it has really done, in a positive sense.

 

It doesn't take a genious to figure out why some of our very respected coaches across the state, over the years have gone out of state, to take on jobs. For example, Maurice Dixon (North Broward Prep, FLA and now at North Gwinnet, GA), Bob Sphire (North Gwinnet, GA), Brett Burnett (leaving E-town for Pelham, AL), Duffer Duffy (Henderson to Fairhope, AL). Tennessee, also seems to make more of a committment to high school football, it seems. Mercer County played Greeneville, TN (4A school in east Tennessee) earlier this year (and won)...their new head coach was just hired back in the spring. They went and got him from North Carolina, where he had previously won a state championship and had other successful teams in the past 10 years, but Greeneville hired him and is paying him $100,000 to coach!! No teaching! Just football! On top of that, the boosters bought him a brand new truck! Those things, I know for a FACT. Not to mention, from what I heard, his assistant coaches are paid like most HS head coaches in this state.

[Buffalo Gap]

Wasn't there an article basically accusing Saint Xavier and Trinity of doing this a couple of weeks ago?

 

Listen, any program that's largely successful for any length of time is very, very shady to say the least. The only one that I'm almost certain is clean is the DeLasalle program in California.

 

I love high school sports but I find it very offensive that schools poor in so much money to their athletics and simply ignore other aspects such as academics, fine arts, and music.

 

I'll be honest with you...I don't think that IGNORING is the case at all, politically correct or not, the fact of the matter is, that the majority of all people, especially the community don't care one bit about a schools fine arts or music programs. Academics, yes. On the topic of academics, theres a lot of schools out there that can pull that 'card', but the truth is, a great deal of these schools have an UNREAL amount of untapped resources(ie: TECHNOLOGY) in their schools that nobody knows about..for whatever reason, but that's a whole 'nother story. Don't get me started on that.

 

Back to fine arts and music, though. I'm all for that stuff, I think it is great, but at the sametime, I'm also not nieve enough to think that those programs can and/or would have a positive effect on a school like a GREAT football, basketball, baseball (or all within the same school) program(s) would and DO have. They just don't...never have and unfortunately, probably never will. So, why dump a ridiculous amount of money into programs that, more than likely, you will never see a profit made from?? Again, not being disrespectful, by any means, just honest...but, 2 weeks ago I happened to be at a band competition that included 20 marching bands from across the state, some of them, the cream of the crop....the stadium they were all at, was relatively small and only held about 2,000 people. Were those 2,000 seats full?! Yes, they were. But, could you imagine if 20 high school football teams from across the state...from the bottom of the barrel teams to the best got together for an all-day football event?!?? You know as well as I do, how many people would be there to watch..and, it's a lot more than 2,000.

 

As for that same school that held the band competition...they're band, in comparison with their football team are both very good programs. Truth be told, their band is probably more successful....but, you wouldn't know it if you looked at the amount of people that come to see them, v.s the crowd the football team gets.

[cshs81]

Wasn't there an article basically accusing Saint Xavier and Trinity of doing this a couple of weeks ago?

 

Listen, any program that's largely successful for any length of time is very, very shady to say the least. The only one that I'm almost certain is clean is the DeLasalle program in California.

 

.

 

You've got all of the private schools across the country figured out?

[mountainmojo68]

I read in SI a few years ago that Hoovers booster club budget was something like $750,000. I cant remember if that was just the football boosters or if they have one big booster club for all the sports teams. Either way thats a huge amount of money for a booster club even for a big city suburb like hoover. No wonder their state championshp rings looked like super bowl rings. As far as Rush Propst goes Im not surprised. When he stood in front of his team in the locker room after a loss and threatened to get a bunch of kids scholarships taken if they didnt start playing better that made me sick. I dont care how much pressure youre under or how mad you are you never threaten to mess with a kids future like that. If a high school coach (I realize they CAN do that in college) ever told one of mine that and I found out about it...Lets just say hed pack an old fashioned country tail whippin from me.

[Eastside]

Wasn't there an article basically accusing Saint Xavier and Trinity of doing this a couple of weeks ago?

 

Listen, any program that's largely successful for any length of time is very, very shady to say the least. The only one that I'm almost certain is clean is the DeLasalle program in California.

 

I love high school sports but I find it very offensive that schools poor in so much money to their athletics and simply ignore other aspects such as academics, fine arts, and music.

 

On the small school side, Danville... has had a more than solid program for years, arguably decades, one should not generalize that a school is "Shady" because they are successful!

 

I assume you are close to the DeLasalle program to be certain they are clean.

[Alabama Larry]

Cards Fan, thanks for the info.

 

Atherton and Iroquois are two public schools that for years were forced to play the power schools in Louisville. Male and Manual included and they always got beat by a lot of points. Maybe 30 kids on the field compared to 80 and 90 for the X/Rocks/Male/Manual.

[jimmyref]

How many private schools play against Colerain?

 

Can the private schools get kids from 12 surrounding counties?

 

What other power public schools are there who go against Colerain.

 

Do they play..say Atherton verses X or Iroquois. (I know thats changed just recently)

 

I know of Cincinnati X and Molleler (sp)

 

Has Colerain won the 17 or 18 championships like the Rocks?

 

Does Colerain also dominate soccer also?

 

Does Colerain have stadiums like X/Rocks? And whats Molleler/ Cincinnati X stadiums compared to the Kentucky schools?

 

Do they get kids from Kentucky who live in Kentucky during the season? Indiana?

 

I have more questions....Middle school questions, but I'll wait.

 

I have to respond. The Guru was correct that the article on page one of the Courier Journal was rumor and innuendo. The response from St X athletic director was buried on page 9 the next day.

 

There are no restrictions for student athletes from Indiana to play athletics in the state of Kentucky. No athlete is allowed to play at an Ohio School that has residency in Kentucky. There may be restrictions within a school district. I am not familiar. Can a student attend Male or Manual if they live in Indiana? Does Indiana have a similar school in academics to Manual or St X?

 

Since St X is a private school, they draw from a large area in the metropolitan area. Please note that Main street in Jeffersonville is closer ( 6.2 miles ) than Oxmoor Mall (9.3 miles) to St Xavier.

 

Specifically to the student athlete that was wrongly named in the Indiana discussion, he played CSAA football and was a member of an Archdiocese of Louisville parish. He is an outstanding student and yes he plays football. However, if you are looking for teams that regularly have Indiana student athletes, I would check out the swimming, wrestling, and cross country teams that do not have a cut to play on their teams. They have to recruit within the school for participants. Both of the tennis and swim teams have had alot more success than the football team.

 

Actually the KHSAA just met and no proposal was made to make Indiana athletes inelgible again.

[08O-Line_pride]

Colerain is to Cincinnati, what Holmes could be to NKY. They have a lot of inner city kids who have dedicated themselves to being good. They play a very aggressive, yet disciplined style of D. On O they run the same option package that they've run for 17 years. The main difference b/n Colerain and many of the public schools in KY is the passion that the fan base has for Colerain. Colerain fans travel in droves to every game. That's what makes Colerain a football power. That's what Sears needs to assess when he cries about the privates unfair advantage. What kind of community support do those schools get? Look at Highlands and Beechwood. Rabid fan base. All of the questions that you listed above are going to give you the same answers that you have already heard. They are a crutch, and that's all they are.

 

How do you compare these two school? Holmes is nothing like Colerain.

[PRIDENEVERDIES]

On a positive note, this goes to show just how good Colerain is and the success public schools can enjoy when they make up their mind to commit to football.

 

You are exactly right, too bad many more schools in the state of Kentucky won't do that. My hats off to the programs that have the support from the top (administration) to the bottom ( loyal fans).

[kissinger]

No athlete is allowed to play at an Ohio School that has residency in Kentucky.

Actually the KHSAA just met and no proposal was made to make Indiana athletes inelgible again.

 

Ohio athletes can in fact have residences anywhere. They just must at least have a GUARDIAN in Ohio. Big difference in that and a permanent resident.

 

Too bad you weren't at the KHSAA meeting on Thursday. Or if you were, you didn't pay attention. The out of state restriction has already passed the KHSAA so it wasn't voted on again, but it was fully reported on and will be moving its way through the implemenation channels again starting in December according to KHSAA staff. Please only state fact when you know fact. Otherwise, state it as opinion.

[mexitucky]

How do you compare these two school? Holmes is nothing like Colerain.

 

Geez, ride the wave. Anyway, my thought was that Holmes and Colerain draw from a similar area. Holmes has a mix of inner city youth and kids from within Covington. Since I've been corrected, I understand that Colerain doesn't get any inner city kids. Irregardless, both school systems get a lot of athletes. Colerain gets more as a Div. I school, however Holmes has a great base to draw out of. I saw Coach Lickert as being able to bring stability to the program from grade school on up. If he stays on there, I see Holmes doing very well for itself in a few years. That's where I was going w/ it.

[firstregionking]

Back to fine arts and music, though. I'm all for that stuff, I think it is great, but at the sametime, I'm also not nieve enough to think that those programs can and/or would have a positive effect on a school like a GREAT football, basketball, baseball (or all within the same school) program(s) would and DO have. They just don't...never have and unfortunately, probably never will. So, why dump a ridiculous amount of money into programs that, more than likely, you will never see a profit made from??

 

 

This is exactly why the arts need more funds: Music and fine arts have been around for thousands of years, football for a little over a hundred years. What's more important in the whole scheme of things?