Roger Clemens = Cheater???

[UKMustangFan]

Sosa couldn't hit the ball once he was traded to the Cubs. He had to take a year off just to get back into regular shape.

 

 

Clemens has had to take half a year off for the last 2-3 years to get back into regular shape....

[SvFan4life]

Clemens has had to take half a year off for the last 2-3 years to get back into regular shape....

 

True. So maybe he did take them, who knows.

[oldrambler]

So just because of his age and success, he's using enhancements.....I attribute his recent success, over 40 to several factors.

 

1) His conditioning routine and workout program

2) Not traveling with his team, on many away games, unless pitching

3) Minimal work in early portion of season

4) Competitive nature and mental approach

:thumb: :thumb: Couldn't have said it better, the Rockets work ethic is like no other MLB player imo. He is relentless as a competitor. His body certainly doesn'r resemble that of one that is juicing.

 

I obviously don't know if he ever took them, He may have but I just don't think so with the factors mentioned above and by some others.

[stickymitts]

IMO, it's a lot more difficult to tell with pitchers because they only play every 5th or 6th day. Now, they work their tail off on a daily basis but have a lot less chance of a game injury than everyday players. Also, there are very few pitchers that are ripped up.

 

My gut says no but my head knows that it's possible. Strike has alluded to the fact that Clemens works as hard as anyone ever has to stay in shape. At this point, the only person I'm fairly sure is innocent from the steroid era is Sean Casey...

[dinoradja]

Like an earlier post stated, there is no specific period that you can point to for Clemens like one can for Bonds and Sosa. Sosa was stealing bases and was so much smaller and Bonds was smaller too and in the first ten years of his career, which in most circumstances is pretty much the prime, he averaged about 29 homers a year, the next ten over 40, that sticks out like a turd in a punch bowl.

[Black Ant]

In the case of Bonds and Sosa, their performances took a noteable turn. Bonds, of course, was great before steroids, but he wasn't blasting HR's every 10 at bats. Sosa went from a decent outfielder to one of the greatest power hitters ever, with an unbelievable 3 year span in which he hit something like 190 HR's.

 

Clemens, on the other hand, has been pretty consistent over the course of his career. There is nothing you can point to and say, "There, he clearly started taking something at that point." He's always been a great power pitcher...it's not like he went from Greg Maddux to Randy Johnson in a year's time. So, I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment.

 

 

Consistency is the key.

[OldRaider22]

For the record, I have no idea if Clemens has used steriods. I think that over time any great player from this era will draw some scrutiny due to the prevelance of steriods during this time period in baseball. In that manner, Clemens will be no different than many other players. However, I will say this:

 

1. There are many, many cases of guys who have pitched well at this point in their career. I think the primary difference is that most of the cases are not from recent memory, and thus the abberation sticks out like a sore thumb. Even still, as K3 mentioned, there are some great examples from this era such as the Unit, Maddux, Smoltz, etc.

 

2. The reason I think Clemens fits this bill is because he is "old school" in terms of his preparation and in his style of pitching. In the past, many pitchers have had this kind of longevity with the same approach. I think the biggest difference between most of the guys that pitch today and guys like Clemens, Maddux, and the like is that one group are pitchers and the other just throwers. Clemens used to be a thrower, he could gas it up with the best of them, but as his skills have diminished he has become a more complete pitcher.

 

3. I really think that with proper technique and a very good strength and conditioning program many of these guys could pitch for a very, very long time. I have personally seen guys who are 40, even 50 years old pitching in Roy Hobbs baseball and I can promise you that they still have some pretty good stuff. They also know their limits, don't try to overextend themselves, and take great care of their arms. Imagine that.......

[Covercorner]

I think people should look into pitchers more as far as steroids go. Steroids don't make you get bigger, thier primary effect is to enhance and improve recovery from activity/workout/ect. Obviously, quicker and better recovery will allow you to workout harder and get bigger- if thats your goal. But if your goal is to be able to have better quality workouts in between starts, and in the off season, steroids can help there too. Do I think Clemens took steroids? I'm not sure, but I won't rule it out. The only ones I know for certian, are those who have either admited it, or tested positive.

[MTNSportsGuy]

I can't believe this is even being discussed.

Clemons has shown none of the signs of steroid use like Bonds, Sosa,McGuire, or Canseco.

 

He has a tremendous work ethic and is in tremendous condition.

Ryan also pitched well into his 40's...Maddox, Johnson.

Heck, What about Cal Ripken??? I guess now someone will start a thread asking what he was on to be able to play in 2,632 consecutive games.:irked:

 

Clemons has been a special type pitcher since his college days.

 

Why do people always try to smear the names of great ones when there is nothing there but ones own conspiracy theory?

[cvillecat]

If he was on it you would probably see effects from it now, like multile injuries or something in that nature. Keeping yourself in great shape can prolong a career also. Just a lucky man IMO.

I agree. Also Clemens has a tremendous work ethic and continues to stay in shape in the off season. And as you stated he has been blessed. Another thing that sets the Rocket apart from the others is his determination to win. He is a highly competitive individual that doesn't want to fail. MLB would be better off if more of the players had the work ethic of Clemens.

[Baseballguy]

So just because of his age and success, he's using enhancements.....I attribute his recent success, over 40 to several factors.

 

1) His conditioning routine and workout program

2) Not traveling with his team, on many away games, unless pitching

3) Minimal work in early portion of season

4) Competitive nature and mental approach

 

 

 

And one of the Nastiest split finger's in the history of the game.

[Wireman]

If this is the case, then Julio Franco must be on more steroids than Chris Benoit was!

[Black Ant]

I can't believe this is even being discussed.

Clemons has shown none of the signs of steroid use like Bonds, Sosa,McGuire, or Canseco.

 

He has a tremendous work ethic and is in tremendous condition.

Ryan also pitched well into his 40's...Maddox, Johnson.

Heck, What about Cal Ripken??? I guess now someone will start a thread asking what he was on to be able to play in 2,632 consecutive games.:irked:

 

Clemons has been a special type pitcher since his college days.

 

Why do people always try to smear the names of great ones when there is nothing there but ones own conspiracy theory?

 

 

He's a lot bigger physically than he was in his early 30's. Testosterone and muscle growth is a lot harder to achieve the older you get. It's not a "giveaway" sign he's on steroids, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[oldrambler]

He's a lot bigger physically than he was in his early 30's. Testosterone and muscle growth is a lot harder to achieve the older you get. It's not a "giveaway" sign he's on steroids, but it wouldn't surprise me.

There are a lot of us that are bigger today than we were when we were younger, it is called the "age" steroid.

[stick1]

I can understand why it is brought up because he is a big man and has done well for so long. I honestly don't think he's on them myself though. I think he works out like most would never think about and has kept his body in great shape the old fashion way. I agree that not traveling as much and pitch counts have probably helped him last longer than everyday players. I also think like all great pitchers he is a smart pitcher not a thrower that can bring it.

As far as pitchers on ROIDS I think there are probably a ton of relievers that have been on them so they could bounce back quicker.