Change My Mind

[Voice of Reason]

59 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Except you can lose a basketball or baseball game in the district and still advance to the region.

Even worse than football. Talk about rewarding losers. But no one complains about that.

[VF111]

It’s an important check for some schools.

For a team of young players with a future, it’s an important experience, and one more time to see live action.

It’s one last week of football for some seniors who play their hearts out for bad teams. 

Even for those teams headed to the inevitable running clock, it can be a good week of practice, team bonding, and closing up shop.

Its one final road trip (sometimes a long one) for teams to be together.

Obviously, there are a share of teams where they just want to be done, but for more teams than some think, it’s a good final week of HS football.  

 

[Jumper_Dad]

37 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

Even worse than football. Talk about rewarding losers. But no one complains about that.

I know...absolutely no one does.

[futurecoach]

1 hour ago, Voice of Reason said:

Quibbling.

I’m trying to figure out what we’re discussing here anyways? For the most part we agree on this. I know you don’t want to see less teams in sports having a chance. Which I was disagreeing with him when he said getting rid of district tournaments in baseball and football, and just using RPI to take top 8 teams for region tournament each year. Which I think would be stupid. There is no need to get rid of district tournaments. In baseball and basketball most teams are playing to make the regional tournament, the regional tournament is the making the playoffs portion of football for baseball and basketball.
 

I guess where we disagree is for me personally I liked the 4 classes in football. When the district part of your regular season schedule at the end of the regular season was your “district tournament” and trying to play your way into the playoffs “region tournament”. Just like in baseball and basketball if you make it to the region, for some teams it felt like your earned something for some schools even if you don’t win the region. Back in 4 classes in football, for some teams that may not truly have a shot to make a run. Just being able to earn a spot to make the playoffs felt like the same accomplishment as other feel when they make the regional tournament in other sports. Right now in football with most schools automatically making it, what exactly sense of accomplishment does a team get by just automatically making it? In a 4 class system for football, the district games at the end of the regular season would then be just like district tournaments in others sports and trying to earn a spot for the playoffs/regional tournaments. 

[Bluegrasscard]

1 hour ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Reducing the number of classes isn't the answer either.  All reducing classes would do, would be to vastly widen the enrollment gap between schools in each class.

 

29 minutes ago, VF111 said:

It’s an important check for some schools.

For a team of young players with a future, it’s an important experience, and one more time to see live action.

It’s one last week of football for some seniors who play their hearts out for bad teams. 

Even for those teams headed to the inevitable running clock, it can be a good week of practice, team bonding, and closing up shop.

Its one final road trip (sometimes a long one) for teams to be together.

Obviously, there are a share of teams where they just want to be done, but for more teams than some think, it’s a good final week of HS football.  

 

I will reference these in my annual appeal on this topic. 

I will start with the basics. 

7 team pods - call them regions, districts, whatever.  Why 7?  Two reason but will start with the playoff reason. 

With 7 teams the playoff seeding can be on that avoids the issues with "blowout weekend". 

Seeding:

#1 Gets a bye week.  Reward for winning pod. 

#6 vs #7.  Usually the struggling teams.  But instead of being sacrificial lambs the first weekend.  They get a chance to get a victory and something build upon or end a short career with.  The winner gets #1 in week 2.  So the week 2 game may be running clock. 

#2 vs #5.  Probably a competitive game in some cases.  Some cases - maybe not. 

#3 vs. #4.  Now you have a likely competitive game in week 1.  Two mid-teams having to sort it out first week.  Winner faces winner of winner of 2/5 game in week 2. 

#1 gets a very easy path to the pod-chamipionship game.  But then would be in for a fight for 4 weeks. 

4 weeks?  Yes - six week playoff schedule.  If you have to shave a regular season game out of the schedule since everyone does make post season. 

To do that - the math says go back to 4 classes (I know...).   4 classes, 8 pods/class, 7 teams/pod.  This works for up to 224 (4 x 8 x 7) teams.  At one time there was slightly less than this in Kentucky. 

I know 4 classes is a non-starter.  But the 7 team bracketing has some interesting dynamics that could lead to more competitive games in the early weekends.  Doing the 6/7 game gives programs something to build on and the chance at two weekends in the post season. 

 

 

 

 

[futurecoach]

17 minutes ago, futurecoach said:

I’m trying to figure out what we’re discussing here anyways? For the most part we agree on this. I know you don’t want to see less teams in sports having a chance. Which I was disagreeing with him when he said getting rid of district tournaments in baseball and football, and just using RPI to take top 8 teams for region tournament each year. Which I think would be stupid. There is no need to get rid of district tournaments. In baseball and basketball most teams are playing to make the regional tournament, the regional tournament is the making the playoffs portion of football for baseball and basketball.
 

I guess where we disagree is for me personally I liked the 4 classes in football. When the district part of your regular season schedule at the end of the regular season was your “district tournament” and trying to play your way into the playoffs “region tournament”. Just like in baseball and basketball if you make it to the region, for some teams it felt like your earned something for some schools even if you don’t win the region. Back in 4 classes in football, for some teams that may not truly have a shot to make a run. Just being able to earn a spot to make the playoffs felt like the same accomplishment as other feel when they make the regional tournament in other sports. Right now in football with most schools automatically making it, what exactly sense of accomplishment does a team get by just automatically making it? In a 4 class system for football, the district games at the end of the regular season would then be just like district tournaments in others sports and trying to earn a spot for the playoffs/regional tournaments. 

Actually I like the 6 classes. I just would make it to where only 3 teams from each district make it. The 1 seeds get a bye in round one. The district part of the regular season football schedule, basically then is the same thing as the “district tournament” part that baseball and basketball do. In both cases every school has a chance to still play and earn a chance to the playoffs/regional tournament. 

[Killowatt59]

53 minutes ago, futurecoach said:

Actually I like the 6 classes. I just would make it to where only 3 teams from each district make it. The 1 seeds get a bye in round one. The district part of the regular season football schedule, basically then is the same thing as the “district tournament” part that baseball and basketball do. In both cases every school has a chance to still play and earn a chance to the playoffs/regional tournament. 

Yeah other than making some people mad, a version of this is the simplest answer. Just give the high seeds a bye and let the lower seeds play each other. 
 

 

[9068]

7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

I believe there are 232 schools playing football in KY. Let's change the playoffs for all 232 because one school has to drive that far?

Not at all. Just like my contention that with six classes no one plays up. Play in your class. Travel for two district games, at most three is not a hardship.

 

[Brown]

Some teams still like being part of the playoffs though.

 

[Voice of Reason]

10 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

 Not true. The basketball district tournaments are the same as the 1st 2 rounds of the playoffs in football. Same story for baseball. 

 

8 hours ago, futurecoach said:

Football doesn’t play their same district anymore in the playoffs. Plus even when football played its own district first in the playoffs, not everyone automatically got a chance still like in baseball and basketball if you want to go that route and say it’s the same. Since Boone County hasn’t played in a playoff game, since they been in their current district in football. 

 

7 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Quibbling.

 

6 hours ago, futurecoach said:

I’m trying to figure out what we’re discussing here anyways? For the most part we agree on this. I know you don’t want to see less teams in sports having a chance. Which I was disagreeing with him when he said getting rid of district tournaments in baseball and football, and just using RPI to take top 8 teams for region tournament each year. Which I think would be stupid. There is no need to get rid of district tournaments. In baseball and basketball most teams are playing to make the regional tournament, the regional tournament is the making the playoffs portion of football for baseball and basketball.
 

I guess where we disagree is for me personally I liked the 4 classes in football. When the district part of your regular season schedule at the end of the regular season was your “district tournament” and trying to play your way into the playoffs “region tournament”. Just like in baseball and basketball if you make it to the region, for some teams it felt like your earned something for some schools even if you don’t win the region. Back in 4 classes in football, for some teams that may not truly have a shot to make a run. Just being able to earn a spot to make the playoffs felt like the same accomplishment as other feel when they make the regional tournament in other sports. Right now in football with most schools automatically making it, what exactly sense of accomplishment does a team get by just automatically making it? In a 4 class system for football, the district games at the end of the regular season would then be just like district tournaments in others sports and trying to earn a spot for the playoffs/regional tournaments. 

Our disagreement is very simply that everyone makes the "playoffs" in basketball and baseball, so I say why shouldn't they in football? Where I said quibbling was about your comparison of basketball districts and football districts. The structures aren't exactly the same and yes there are a couple teams that don't make the playoffs in football but to me those are trivial. Football is a little different and the current structure is as good as they can make it to get as many teams as possible into the playoffs.

[Voice of Reason]

Here is a fact most people probably don't know - there are 33 teams that are not in the playoffs. In other words, it is more difficult to make the playoffs in football than it is in every other sport in KY.

Hancock County finished 6-4 and did not make the playoffs. Perry County Central finished 5-5 and did not make the playoffs.

Does that make everyone feel better?

[Voice of Reason]

Question for everyone. What percentage of first round games will be decided by two touchdowns or less?

[futurecoach]

4 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

Here is a fact most people probably don't know - there are 33 teams that are not in the playoffs. In other words, it is more difficult to make the playoffs in football than it is in every other sport in KY.

Hancock County finished 6-4 and did not make the playoffs. Perry County Central finished 5-5 and did not make the playoffs.

Does that make everyone feel better?

For me I am fine with that. As I said, I view the end of the schedule district games; As being basically the same thing as playing in the district tournament. Where you are going to need to win 1 or possibly 2 district games to make the playoffs. Just like teams in a district tournament in other sports usually have to win at least one or two games in the district tournament to make the regional tournament (playoffs).  

[Sasquatch]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:28 PM, Voice of Reason said:

Not going to try and change anyone's mind. What I will ask for is a thread like this the first week of basketball district tournaments and another thread like this the first round of district baseball. Ugly games abound in the other sports as well. Basketball games 100-20. Baseball games 25-0 in 3 innings. I don't get why it bothers people for football and not for the other sports. 

But here is a solution. Allow any team that doesn't want to play a first round game to choose not to play. I say there will be very, very few teams that choose not to play a first round playoff game in any sport.

The problem for most people, I think, is because baseball and basketball have always accepted everyone into district play at the end of the year so it has just be accepted.  And football used to be fewer classes, with larger district play, and only two teams go into the playoffs.  A lot of people, on some really good teams, didn't make the playoffs and it bothers them that everyone gets in and there is such a large disparity in scores. Personally I think the 4 class system, with 4 teams getting into the playoffs, was the sweet spot between my youth, my high school years, and now old man critiquing everything. 

[KYFootballFanz]

12 hours ago, Bluegrasscard said:

 

I will reference these in my annual appeal on this topic. 

I will start with the basics. 

7 team pods - call them regions, districts, whatever.  Why 7?  Two reason but will start with the playoff reason. 

With 7 teams the playoff seeding can be on that avoids the issues with "blowout weekend". 

Seeding:

#1 Gets a bye week.  Reward for winning pod. 

#6 vs #7.  Usually the struggling teams.  But instead of being sacrificial lambs the first weekend.  They get a chance to get a victory and something build upon or end a short career with.  The winner gets #1 in week 2.  So the week 2 game may be running clock. 

#2 vs #5.  Probably a competitive game in some cases.  Some cases - maybe not. 

#3 vs. #4.  Now you have a likely competitive game in week 1.  Two mid-teams having to sort it out first week.  Winner faces winner of winner of 2/5 game in week 2. 

#1 gets a very easy path to the pod-chamipionship game.  But then would be in for a fight for 4 weeks. 

4 weeks?  Yes - six week playoff schedule.  If you have to shave a regular season game out of the schedule since everyone does make post season. 

To do that - the math says go back to 4 classes (I know...).   4 classes, 8 pods/class, 7 teams/pod.  This works for up to 224 (4 x 8 x 7) teams.  At one time there was slightly less than this in Kentucky. 

I know 4 classes is a non-starter.  But the 7 team bracketing has some interesting dynamics that could lead to more competitive games in the early weekends.  Doing the 6/7 game gives programs something to build on and the chance at two weekends in the post season.