War in Ukraine

[Voice of Reason]

15 minutes ago, theguru said:

I am not sure I agree but either way you have named the three most likely suspects. 

 I could definitely see Ukraine doing it to make sure Europe doesn't cave this winter and give in to Russia. 

 If the US did it that sabotages all the great work they have done building the NATO alliance throughout this whole war.

 Russia is so insane I would not put anything past them.

[Jumper_Dad]

5 hours ago, theguru said:

Not that I am aware of and anything is possible but why cut off your revenue sources if you are Russia.  You may want to cut other countries off but you also want to be able to supply other countries too so Russia damaging their cash cows doesn't make any sense to me.  If I was investigating it my top two suspects would be Ukraine and America. 

The talking head that I heard today said that while this would be a loss for Russia, that it would also dramatically drive up the prices that Russia would get for natural gas sold to other countries. That price increase would not only offset the losses but that overall higher fuel prices for Europe would weaken their resolve for the current economic sanctions placed on Russia. This guy was basically laying out the case that it very well could have been Russia.

[theguru]

13 hours ago, Jumper_Dad said:

The talking head that I heard today said that while this would be a loss for Russia, that it would also dramatically drive up the prices that Russia would get for natural gas sold to other countries. That price increase would not only offset the losses but that overall higher fuel prices for Europe would weaken their resolve for the current economic sanctions placed on Russia. This guy was basically laying out the case that it very well could have been Russia.

Generally speaking I just don't understand how Russia would have any incentive to destroy their own energy infrastructure when they could simply quit/start selling to anyone on demand.  With that said, sure it could be them.  However, Ukraine and America (which I believe are nearly one in the same here) would have several incentives to sabotage Russian energy.

[theguru]

16 hours ago, Voice of Reason said:

 I could definitely see Ukraine doing it to make sure Europe doesn't cave this winter and give in to Russia. 

 If the US did it that sabotages all the great work they have done building the NATO alliance throughout this whole war.

 Russia is so insane I would not put anything past them.

If America did it of course they don't want anyone knowing about it and I assume whoever did it will always have some plausible deniability so I doubt any speculation about it will harm any work America has done or is doing. 

[Voice of Reason]

11 minutes ago, theguru said:

If America did it of course they don't want anyone knowing about it and I assume whoever did it will always have some plausible deniability so I doubt any speculation about it will harm any work America has done or is doing. 

What does the US gain by sabotaging that pipeline?

[theguru]

7 minutes ago, Voice of Reason said:

What does the US gain by sabotaging that pipeline?

Cutting off Russia's cash flow and forcing the European Nations to completely pick a side against Russia because Russia no longer has anything of value to offer those nations.

[theguru]

From Breitbart:

Swedish authorities have reported a new fourth alleged leak in the Nord Stream pipelines in the Swedish economic zone as some fear that the damage to the multi-billion-pound pipelines may not be repairable.

[Voice of Reason]

1 hour ago, theguru said:

Cutting off Russia's cash flow and forcing the European Nations to completely pick a side against Russia because Russia no longer has anything of value to offer those nations.

I believe Russia had already shut down those pipelines. Russia has found willing customers for their energy in China and India. Europe already picked sides and went all in with the rebuilt trust in NATO and the US. 

[theguru]

1 minute ago, Voice of Reason said:

I believe Russia had already shut down those pipelines. Russia has found willing customers for their energy in China and India. Europe already picked sides and went all in with the rebuilt trust in NATO and the US. 

I judge support on the total amount of money/weapons given to Ukraine.  I would like to see a breakdown of that by country/GDP.  I think some countries have been hedging their support.

[Jumper_Dad]

4 hours ago, theguru said:

I judge support on the total amount of money/weapons given to Ukraine.  I would like to see a breakdown of that by country/GDP.  I think some countries have been hedging their support.

Here you go.

[theguru]

4 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Here you go.

Thanks, I found this one too from statista.com:

[sportsfan41]

1 hour ago, theguru said:

Thanks, I found this one too from statista.com:

Now, in fairness to that, like all numbers, it's good to fully understand where they rank.   I found this info on the googler, from the World Bank.  As you can see, of the European countries listed, only Germany, the United Kingdom and France make the world top 15 list of worldwide GDP rankings.  AND, if you were to combine those 3 countries GDP, then multiply them by 2.28, they would equal the United States.  Just saying.

 

[Jumper_Dad]

26 minutes ago, sportsfan41 said:

Now, in fairness to that, like all numbers, it's good to fully understand where they rank.   I found this info on the googler, from the World Bank.  As you can see, of the European countries listed, only Germany, the United Kingdom and France make the world top 15 list of worldwide GDP rankings.  AND, if you were to combine those 3 countries GDP, then multiply them by 2.28, they would equal the United States.  Just saying.

 

Italy and Spain are in Europe too.

[sportsfan41]

3 minutes ago, Jumper_Dad said:

Italy and Spain are in Europe too.

They are, but they weren't on the list that Guru originally posted, which was why I didn't include them.  With that said, you could include those countries, for a combined 5 of the top 15 countries from Europe and then wouldn't even need to double their GDP to match the United States.  It would still be about $8 trillion short of the US, but who is counting right?

 

Uncle Ben said it best, "With great power, comes great responsibility. 

[Jumper_Dad]

32 minutes ago, sportsfan41 said:

They are, but they weren't on the list that Guru originally posted, which was why I didn't include them.  With that said, you could include those countries, for a combined 5 of the top 15 countries from Europe and then wouldn't even need to double their GDP to match the United States.  It would still be about $8 trillion short of the US, but who is counting right?

 

Uncle Ben said it best, "With great power, comes great responsibility. 

Just giving you a hard time because they were on the list that you posted.