NFHS permits shot clock starting 2022/23

[bulldog77]

1 hour ago, TheDeuce said:

The skill level in high school in relation to the shot clock is where it is because they aren't being coached towards a shot clock. Do you believe high school students are incapable of adapting to a shot clock?

Not at all what I said.  I believe high school students need to learn ALL aspects of the game not just get up and down the floor and shoot against passive partial defense.  And yes, I've been to a few AAU games in my time.  Shot clock basketball simply does not promote defense, passing, understanding floor positioning (other than to set up for your shot) and much more.  Also, I think this promotes the HAVE's to yet another level above the have-nots.  You may not like slow-down basketball or precision offense, but that is what helps level the playing field for less talented and/or less populated programs.  So if a shot clock is going to ever be a go in the high school game, then I believe you MUST classify the sport or just assume the same 5% of schools in the state will be the sole contenders.

[SnottieDrippen]

20 minutes ago, FB Head said:

Is there any info on what the average possession is in KY high school ball?  Interested to see those numbers.

Up-tempo/stall ball is a matter of preference and make up of the team's ability. 

Regardless, I think kids/coaches would adapt towards a shot clock if it was implemented. 

This is a shot in the dark... I’m guessing about 70-80 possessions per game for an average to up-tempo team. A team like Anderson Co a few years ago might be playing 45-possession games. Again, complete guesses. 

[FB Head]

13 minutes ago, CincySportsFan said:

If you mean would kids be willing to jack up a shot, heck yeah.  Doesn't mean the quality of the game would be better. 

I would be brave enough to say that this happens ("jack up a shot") in about 1/4 of possession today all ready.  And that is a conservative number.

Kids will adapt.  Whether is for the good or the game or not, time will tell. Never said that I agree/disagree with the motion.

Wonder what the conversations were years ago when they implemented a three point shot??

[CincySportsFan]

1 hour ago, FB Head said:

I would be brave enough to say that this happens ("jack up a shot") in about 1/4 of possession today all ready.  And that is a conservative number.

I would agree with that.  My point is that if that is happening now, what's it going to be like if a kid has the pressure of a shot clock winding down.

[cincydragons]

3 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

As usual, this discussion is a matter of preference. I like fast-paced up and down basketball games, not watching teams dribble the air out of the ball to try to limit possessions. 

The only credible obstacle, in my opinion, would be funding the purchase of shot clocks for every school. Many districts simply won't have the extra money for it. If that could be solved, any other issues are minor in comparison.

Our high school wheelchair basketball league plays with a shot clock.  We bought one for $700 last year.  I don’t see the huge financial burdens that a lot of people claim it will cost.

[TheDeuce]

4 hours ago, bulldog77 said:

Shot clock basketball simply does not promote defense, passing, understanding floor positioning (other than to set up for your shot) and much more. 

This couldn’t be further from the truth. You could easily make an argument that a shot clock would increase the need for these things to be emphasized. 

[brooksville]

6 hours ago, SnottieDrippen said:

Getting this conversation out of the way early this year!

I wouldn't be surprised to see KHSAA allow but not encourage the use during maybe holiday tournaments or something like that(and maybe they already do), moving forward. Personally, I don't care either way. "Stall Ball" and its "patient" cousins have kept me in games and taken me out of them. Same with running and gunning. 

The logistics, understandably, will always be the one thing that will stall the institution of the clock, for better or worse. 

I don't think you can pick and chose which games to have a shot clock.

[The Professor]

14 hours ago, DanvilleFan said:

I can't see it being adopted anytime soon due to installation costs for some schools as well as getting personnel who can operate it well during games.

^^^

This

[bulldog77]

12 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

This couldn’t be further from the truth. You could easily make an argument that a shot clock would increase the need for these things to be emphasized. 

I guess we'll just respectfully disagree on this point.  What are your feelings on disenfranchising smaller, less populated schools even more so with this rule?  

[SnottieDrippen]

13 hours ago, brooksville said:

I don't think you can pick and chose which games to have a shot clock.

I would say as long as there are no post-season implications, why not allow a shot clock somewhere like the KoB or AIT? Not that they need to mess with that formula, just... why not?

It's like a wooden bat tournament in baseball. Sure, most kids won't use one until they're being payed to play, but they still happen. Or did at least. I'm not super current on baseball happenings the last 10 years or so.

[TheDeuce]

3 hours ago, bulldog77 said:

I guess we'll just respectfully disagree on this point.  What are your feelings on disenfranchising smaller, less populated schools even more so with this rule?  

I don't see how it does that at all, if I'm being honest. Sounds like a cop out for bad coaching. 

[rjs4470]

2 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

I don't see how it does that at all, if I'm being honest. Sounds like a cop out for bad coaching. 

The more I listen to the pros and arguments for, the more I’m starting to think it might not be a bad thing. If a team is already “disenfranchised” how much worse can they get? 

[bulldog77]

2 hours ago, TheDeuce said:

I don't see how it does that at all, if I'm being honest. Sounds like a cop out for bad coaching. 

Hardly.  Certainly you can acknowledge the clear disparities between large schools and small schools, urban schools and county schools, public and private.  Now I'm not saying you can address every aspect of "equality" of competition, that's impossible and even ludicrous to think, but to add to the advantages of the "more talent laden" teams by reducing or eliminating altogether a tactical opportunity (defense, stall, etc.) just makes the problem worse in my opinion.  Calling it bad coaching is the real cop out.  Easier to point fingers and play the blame game I guess than to address the root problem.  This will, in my opinion, reduce even further the number of programs able to consistently compete for championships.  But, either way, I'll still love high school basketball.

[TheDeuce]

17 minutes ago, bulldog77 said:

Hardly.  Certainly you can acknowledge the clear disparities between large schools and small schools, urban schools and county schools, public and private.  Now I'm not saying you can address every aspect of "equality" of competition, that's impossible and even ludicrous to think, but to add to the advantages of the "more talent laden" teams by reducing or eliminating altogether a tactical opportunity (defense, stall, etc.) just makes the problem worse in my opinion.  Calling it bad coaching is the real cop out.  Easier to point fingers and play the blame game I guess than to address the root problem.  This will, in my opinion, reduce even further the number of programs able to consistently compete for championships.  But, either way, I'll still love high school basketball.

If teams main strategy is stall ball, they can still do it. A shot clock doesn't change that except for the fact that they can only hold the ball for so long. 

Bad teams are going to be bad with or without a shot clock. Using that as a reason against adding a shot clock is not valid, IMHO. 

[TheDeuce]

24 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

The more I listen to the pros and arguments for, the more I’m starting to think it might not be a bad thing. If a team is already “disenfranchised” how much worse can they get? 

Exactly. A team isn't going to magically get worse (or better) because of a shot clock. They are what they are. If adding a shot clock has a huge negative impact on the team, again, it's on the coach, IMO.