Quality of Officials Assigned to work Girls Game

[Baseballfan3]

I with you on this one! Referees probably need to address and adapt with the improved skill sets many girls are displaying. It may not be done exactly like a boy, but many times it is still done correctly without a walk.

Not if you read the rule book they don't.

[Sparky Anderson]

Wow! Why so bitter??? What's your solution to fixing the entire officiating world?? I assume you never made a mistake, interpreted something incorrectly, was never out of position, never were frustrated by a parent or coach, never had a game where you didn't feel your best, never missed a travel or foul call? That's really good and I wish they were all that way...but reality...not going to EVER happen in HS officiating. Not really a big deal. Again, maybe it's the region I'm in.

 

Typical response. I don't agree with your opinion so I'm bitter. I guess I could tell you to grow up and realize that not everybody agrees with you either, but then I would be petty I guess. The thread has to do with girls officiating. It's bad. That's not being bitter, that's stating my observation and opinion. A start to "fixing" officiating might be to train them (legitimately) first, make them accountable second. I already stated that all of us have poor judgement, beat another dead horse please.

 

I wish had the time to survey every high school female player and and every high school female coach in the state because I believe that they do not like the out-of-control physical play that the predominantly men referees allow. I realize that I'm old school, but it was a better game when skill dominated.

 

I can't wait for the name-calling to follow.

[TripleSevens]

Typical response. I don't agree with your opinion so I'm bitter. I guess I could tell you to grow up and realize that not everybody agrees with you either, but then I would be petty I guess. The thread has to do with girls officiating. It's bad. That's not being bitter, that's stating my observation and opinion. A start to "fixing" officiating might be to train them (legitimately) first, make them accountable second. I already stated that all of us have poor judgement, beat another dead horse please.

 

I wish had the time to survey every high school female player and and every high school female coach in the state because I believe that they do not like the out-of-control physical play that the predominantly men referees allow. I realize that I'm old school, but it was a better game when skill dominated.

I can't wait for the name-calling to follow.

 

I cannot argue with the bold at all. In fact, I very much agree.

[TripleSevens]

Not if you read the rule book they don't.

 

Not sure I follow you. Are you saying that the rule book does not allow for adapting and changing? If so, you are correct. And I agree. Rules are still rules and they do not evolve.

 

However, athleticism, styles, techniques, and skill levels can and have evolved. A different way of doing something under the same legal boundaries. Examples...boys today no longer shoot like Jimmy Chitwood, the skyhook is no longer popular, and some girls actually pull a "prohop" and euro step instead of a jump stop.

[HoopsLady]

Typical response. I don't agree with your opinion so I'm bitter. I guess I could tell you to grow up and realize that not everybody agrees with you either, but then I would be petty I guess. The thread has to do with girls officiating. It's bad. That's not being bitter, that's stating my observation and opinion. A start to "fixing" officiating might be to train them (legitimately) first, make them accountable second. I already stated that all of us have poor judgement, beat another dead horse please.

 

I wish had the time to survey every high school female player and and every high school female coach in the state because I believe that they do not like the out-of-control physical play that the predominantly men referees allow. I realize that I'm old school, but it was a better game when skill dominated.

 

I can't wait for the name-calling to follow.

 

I'll be blunt. The beauty of the girl's and women's game is that it is played below the rim, where Naismith originally intended the game to be played. In the girls game, you have to be able to score by moving the ball on offense, by converting turnovers caused by in your face defense and by skilled post play. There are no back door alley oop dunks in the girls game.

 

The boys game has become dominated by athleticism often at the expense of individual and team skill. The girls game is primarily a game of skill (although there are many fine female athletes as well). They are different games and they should be officiated by different folks.

 

When I read comments in this thread like (paraphrasing) "If we called it close, games would take 4 hours." To me that is code for "I really want to be somewhere else."

[RCC9]

I'm

Typical response. I don't agree with your opinion so I'm bitter. I guess I could tell you to grow up and realize that not everybody agrees with you either, but then I would be petty I guess. The thread has to do with girls officiating. It's bad. That's not being bitter, that's stating my observation and opinion. A start to "fixing" officiating might be to train them (legitimately) first, make them accountable second. I already stated that all of us have poor judgement, beat another dead horse please.

 

I wish had the time to survey every high school female player and and every high school female coach in the state because I believe that they do not like the out-of-control physical play that the predominantly men referees allow. I realize that I'm old school, but it was a better game when skill dominated.

 

I can't wait for the name-calling to follow.

 

Bitter because you're so aggressive in your response to anyone that doesn't totally agree with you. I'm not sure I have even disagreed with you! I could care less whether you agree with me. All I've said is I have no problem the way it is. And can understand why the way it is. And understand its high school. My bitter comment had nothing to do with whether you agree with me. I'm talking about the way you treat anyone that responds.

 

And I don't call people names.

 

As far as your fix, how can we make it happen. Do you think if it was easy to put in place and govern at the high school level, this wouldn't be a topic on here? Heck, I know in some sports it hard to even find people that are willing to do it. The only opinion I have had is it doesn't bother me. I don't think I disputed anything you've said.

 

So again, why so bitter.? You're in attack mode!! It appears I'm not the only one that feels that way!

[Dozer61]

Most girls drag their pivot foot on a euro step. That is why they get called for it every single time.

 

I disagree with this sweeping generalization.

[itsagame]

Assigners go to great lengths to make training available to their refs; they have meeting, clinics and on site evaluations (not with a beer at a bar either). I really do not know how you would provide training to such a large amount of people from vastly different areas, experience and background for a game that varies each and every night, or more precisely each and every play. You cannot simulate an actual ball game in a training session; or actually they do when the refs are required to work a camp under the supervision of assigners and their best evaluators. Experience and on-the-job training is the best way to learn the profession.

 

When you break it down, refs do not make much money unless they work 6 games a week. They are required to be on site for varsity games an hour early, have to drive an hour to get to the game, work an hour and a half game and drive an hour home. So they have to invest an average of 4-5 hours per game for $70 which when you add gas, wear and tear on your vehicle and an on the road meal, they are making about $10-$15 per hour. In addition to that, they have to buy uniforms, pay fees to register with the KHSAA and their ref association, and bear the cost of attending training meetings/clinics for no pay.

 

I am really surprised that enough refs can be found to work all of the games being played from AAU, youth leagues, middle school, high school (Fresh, JV & V; boys & girls), adult league and several levels of college. I have not even mentioned the nightly abuse taken from coaches, players and fans that they are supposed to completely block out or they are a bad ref. There are a lot of Sparky Andersons out there.

 

Most refs work several nights a week to make it financially worthwhile after working their day jobs. Working a day job and a night job several nights a week sure does not leave much time to be with your family and getting home after 11:00 does not make it very easy to get up the next morning to be at your day job on time, ready to have a good work day. Refs make tremendous sacrifices to be refs; it is much more than showing up to ref a ball game on a Tuesday night. You must be extremely dedicated and at your best at all times. No one makes a living at working high school basketball.

 

I have been there, done it and will never do it again. It seems to me that a reasonable person ought to appreciate the efforts of the refs to try to officiate a subjective sport that is impossible to do correctly to the biased coach, player or fan. One person said it best, a bad game makes for bad refs.

 

Next time you see a ref, thank him/her for being a ref and having the guts to put themselves out there to be abused whenever they are less than perfect.

Edited December 17, 2014 by itsagame
left out key point

[justsayin]

I know this is a thread about bashing the refs, but... How about some ref basher bashing...

I have to wonder if the fans even hear themselves sometimes.

Do those parents actually think the ref is going to stop the game, apologize for making the call with their eyes closed, and change the decision?

How should the ref respond to "are you freaking blind?"

"Why yes I am. The guide dog barked twice which means traveling, so I blew the whistle. I'll have to speak to his trainer after the game."

 

Friday night I watched a parent in the 2nd row, yelling, red faced, at the ref who couldn't have been more than 5 feet away.

 

Good or bad, you have to give the refs some credit for taking the abuse.

I know I wouldn't do it.

 

This^

 

I've had many people tell me I would be a good referee, and many have asked me to join them. I really enjoy reading and understanding the rules of the game (and yes, I do own the Rule book), and always give the stripes the benefit of the doubt. I feel I could handle the play of the game, the players themselves, as well as the coaches.

 

But there isn't enough money (or love of the game) to put up with the venom that is spewed from the stands. I just couldn't do it. Most people don't know the rules, and think their admission price gives them the right to be a raving lunatic. And the idiocy of some of the comments in this thread confirms my decision.

[lawildcat]

This^

 

I've had many people tell me I would be a good referee, and many have asked me to join them. I really enjoy reading and understanding the rules of the game (and yes, I do own the Rule book), and always give the stripes the benefit of the doubt. I feel I could handle the play of the game, the players themselves, as well as the coaches.

 

But there isn't enough money (or love of the game) to put up with the venom that is spewed from the stands. I just couldn't do it. Most people don't know the rules, and think their admission price gives them the right to be a raving lunatic. And the idiocy of some of the comments in this thread confirms my decision.

 

Not only that but most of the "idiots" in the stands are teaching their kids on the court that it's ok to be disrespectful to the officials. And the beat goes on....

[FarBeyondDriven]

I wish referees would let the girls play more like the boys.

[doubledeuce]

I wish referees would let the girls play more like the boys.

The only two things I don't like that they call on girls waaaaay more than on boys:

1. Traveling on a pump fake then drive from the perimeter

2. Carrying or palming the ball when dribbling

[Tiger1]

You do know that officials aren't assigned JUST girls or boys games during the season? They do a mixture of both.

 

Here's a link for you. Take the test, grab a whistle and see if you can do any better. Let me know when your 1st game is; I want to see how a pro does it.

 

Officiating Information | Kentucky High School Athletic Association

 

Give it a break. So tired of hearing OFFICIALS come on this site and say take the test and grab a whistle bull crap.

 

Are there some officials that call a good game because they are very knowledgeable of the rules, absolutely without a doubt. With that said, there are so many more terrible ones these days than there are good ones.

[Sparky Anderson]

RCC9, itsagame - No, there are not a lot of Sparky Andersons out there. I did my refereeing time on several levels including college, but that was some time ago. That by no means makes me an expert nor does it mean that refereeing was better years ago. We had clinics and camps that we had to attend on our own time with our own money, not take an online test and attend an association meeting like most today. Years ago, there weren't that many officials because we got our games from coaches and athletic directors - no assigners like today. If you were any good, coaches wanted you back. If you weren't, you didn't get very many games. Today assigners get paid, in part, by the number of officials in an association so it is to their advantage to get as many officials as possible no matter how good or bad they are.

 

I honestly don't know which way is better - assigners or referees getting their own games. I know that I had as many games as I wanted. You could probably start another thread on the good and bad of both ways referees have gotten games.

 

As far as a solution, I can use the Ohio model that has been written about in Referee magazine several times as maybe something KY could try. They increased fees to become an official, increased training requirements putting ownership on the individual referee and increased evaluations. The result? More referees than the state association has ever had. You mention additional training to officials today, and the response has been stated on here already. It's part-time and not enough money in it. The first thing I was taught is that no one should get into officiating for the money, yet that seems to be the excuse as why refereeing is not better than it is.

 

Finally, I can't locate the forum rules where I get called bitter and attacking because I didn't agree with RCC9 and others. I'm stating my opinion, try to validate my opinion and not look at this forum as a popularity contest. No wonder this board goes dead at times!

[lawildcat]

Give it a break. So tired of hearing OFFICIALS come on this site and say take the test and grab a whistle bull crap.

 

Are there some officials that call a good game because they are very knowledgeable of the rules, absolutely without a doubt. With that said, there are so many more terrible ones these days than there are good ones.

 

You, my friend, can give it a break. I am not an official. You couldn't pay me enough to take crap off of people like you or others here who are bashing officials. If there are so many terrible officials out there, what's wrong with inviting people to step into their shoes and fill the void?