50 Greatest Players of All-Time Redeux

[ESPNdeux]

Find a way to add LeBron, Kobe, Duncan, Iverson, Wade, Nowitzki, and Garnett. Pierce and Nash could be argued though Nash never won a ring.

 

Other guys who could eventually make it:

 

Durant is a lock. Rose will if he can regain form. Westbrook could maybe get there. CP3 has to be close, specially if he can win a ring. If Melo ever wins his numbers will get him there.

 

Too early for Davis.

 

Going wayyy overboard.... Rose, Westbrook, CP3, Davis aren't even in the conversation. AI, Wade, Nowitski, Garnett I don't think can be locks. Pierce/Nash can't be either. I actually think Nash is closer than Pierce and a few others.

 

This is the top 50 to ever play the game. Are 15 of the top 50 to ever play playing right now?

[BigVMan23]

The reason that Cowens played the 5 and not the 4 is b/c he could hit consistently from 17 plus and get up and down the floor better than any big in the NBA. Randolph's game is similar in his mentality. Here you go to go towards my point Dave Cowens - YouTube

 

That video really just reiterated to me my initial thoughts on Cowan...a tough competitor who did the hard, dirty stuff to help his team win. I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player, not at all. I just still don't see him as being more athletic than John Lucas. More athletic than Maurice Lucas maybe, but not John Lucas.

[mexitucky]

That video really just reiterated to me my initial thoughts on Cowan...a tough competitor who did the hard, dirty stuff to help his team win. I'm not saying he wasn't a very good player, not at all. I just still don't see him as being more athletic than John Lucas. More athletic than Maurice Lucas maybe, but not John Lucas.

 

Did you watch him jump?

Read the below article.

Now that's a power forward - Bob Ryan Boston Globe Sports Blog

 

And this. Notice the compliment, "Best jumping white man I've ever seen." http://www.nba.com/celtics/history/GG_Cowens.html

Edited April 25, 2014 by mexitucky

[UKMustangFan]

Going wayyy overboard.... Rose, Westbrook, CP3, Davis aren't even in the conversation. AI, Wade, Nowitski, Garnett I don't think can be locks. Pierce/Nash can't be either. I actually think Nash is closer than Pierce and a few others.

 

This is the top 50 to ever play the game. Are 15 of the top 50 to ever play playing right now?

 

Dirk is easily top 20-25 all-time. Garnett statistically is one of the best ever. He's a lock. AI is one of the top pure scorers ever. CP3 is close.

[BigVMan23]

Did you watch him jump?

Read the below article.

Now that's a power forward - Bob Ryan Boston Globe Sports Blog

 

And this. Notice the compliment, "Best jumping white man I've ever seen." Meet the Men in Green - Dave Cowens | The Official Site of the BOSTON CELTICS

 

Again, I'm just stating that I don't believe Cowans was MORE athletic than Jerry (not John as I absentmindedly posted above) Lucas. He might have been naturally stronger, I don't know, but Lucas was considered a beast and a strong man in his day as well.

[mexitucky]

Again, I'm just stating that I don't believe Cowans was MORE athletic than Jerry (not John as I absentmindedly posted above) Lucas. He might have been naturally stronger, I don't know, but Lucas was considered a beast and a strong man in his day as well.

 

Yes, he was. That's why I say there were very similar. Similar roles, similar stats and once Lucas joined the Knicks similar (actually a better) teams. I can't see removing one and not the other, that should have been how I prefaced that.

[BigVMan23]

Dirk is easily top 20-25 all-time. Garnett statistically is one of the best ever. He's a lock. AI is one of the top pure scorers ever. CP3 is close.

 

Wow...that's some big praise there. I'd argue no simply because I don't think for a big man he rebounds well enough and he's a non factor on the defensive side of the ball.

[BigVMan23]

Yes, he was. That's why I say there were very similar. Similar roles, similar stats and once Lucas joined the Knicks similar (actually a better) teams. I can't see removing one and not the other, that should have been how I prefaced that.

 

Actually their scoring was closer than I thought. I thought Lucas was closer to the 20 ppg range than he was, and after looking it up...very similar stats, with Lucas having a slight rebounding edge.

 

I still argue though that Cowans wasn't any more athletic than Lucas was. Just watched some old clips of Lucas...he wasn't lacking for athletic ability at all.

[ESPNdeux]

Dirk is easily top 20-25 all-time. Garnett statistically is one of the best ever. He's a lock. AI is one of the top pure scorers ever. CP3 is close.

 

After looking up Dirk's stats, I would agree that he's probably top 50 on his offensive prowess and the fact that he was kinda the first 7 ft. shooter. Won a title. Best player on that team. Won an MVP. Many many All star games and All NBA teams. Probably the best European to ever play (am I forgetting someone?).

 

Garnett. I just don't think you can say he is a lock. He has won one championship, and it can be argued he was the third best player on that team. His best accomplishments are on the defensive end IMO.

 

AI... These other guys are going to make more All Star teams than he had years in the league. Number of all NBA teams pales in comparison. No titles. Never really had much playoff success.

 

CP3... Very few All NBA teams comparatively. Less All star teams than all of them. Little playoff success. No titles. No MVPs.

[BigVMan23]

After looking up Dirk's stats, I would agree that he's probably top 50 on his offensive prowess and the fact that he was kinda the first 7 ft. shooter. Won a title. Best player on that team. Won an MVP. Many many All star games and All NBA teams. Probably the best European to ever play (am I forgetting someone?).

 

Garnett. I just don't think you can say he is a lock. He has won one championship, and it can be argued he was the third best player on that team. His best accomplishments are on the defensive end IMO.

 

 

AI... These other guys are going to make more All Star teams than he had years in the league. Number of all NBA teams pales in comparison. No titles. Never really had much playoff success.

 

CP3... Very few All NBA teams comparatively. Less All star teams than all of them. Little playoff success. No titles. No MVPs.

 

 

Just goes to show how differently people view things. I see Garnett as much more of a lock than Dirk. Is this generations prototypical power forward, made a difference on BOTH sides of the floor...had to account for him everywhere on the floor in his prime. Not quite the offensive threat that Dirk is/was...but much better rebounder, defender, shot blocker, etc.

[ESPNdeux]

Just goes to show how differently people view things. I see Garnett as much more of a lock than Dirk. Is this generations prototypical power forward, made a difference on BOTH sides of the floor...had to account for him everywhere on the floor in his prime. Not quite the offensive threat that Dirk is/was...but much better rebounder, defender, shot blocker, etc.

 

I will give you that my preference for Dirk probably stems from a few things that make him unique rather than prototypical...

 

This might not be fair, but it's a big justification for me. Dirk was able to carry a team to the finals on his back. KG never was.

[BigVMan23]

Stats don't tell everything of course, but Dirk and Garnett;

 

Points: 22.5 to 19.1 actually a little closer than I would have first thought.

 

Rebounds: 8.1 to 10.5

 

Blks: .9 to 1.5

 

Assts: 2.6 to 3.9

 

Add to the fact that Garnett is/was considered a very good defensive player in his prime, and Dirk has yet to discover defense (said tongue in cheek) and to me Garnett is in the argument before Dirk.

[LIPTON BASH]

Going wayyy overboard.... Rose, Westbrook, CP3, Davis aren't even in the conversation. AI, Wade, Nowitski, Garnett I don't think can be locks. Pierce/Nash can't be either. I actually think Nash is closer than Pierce and a few others.

 

This is the top 50 to ever play the game. Are 15 of the top 50 to ever play playing right now?

 

CP3 is in the convo. Nash is a two time MVP which makes him a lock. Dirk Wade KG AI pierce all locks .

[Hatz]

Cowens played Reed, Alcindor, Wilt, Walton, Gilmore, and Malone. He seemed to do ok. I don't think Jerry Lucas who was shorter and less athletic than Cowens, would "abuse" him. In fact they are incredibly comparable looking by numbers and awards. Take the college careers out of it, where Lucas and OSU made three straight finals, and they are tough to separate. What Cowens did for FSU while they were on probation and the ground work he helped lay there should be commended.

 

I don't know if I would take Cowens off either but I really don't recall Dave going against Gilmore much more than a year or so did he? Gilmore was ABA until 1977 I believe. Malone was ABA until then too wasn't he?

[ESPNdeux]

CP3 is in the convo. Nash is a two time MVP which makes him a lock. Dirk Wade KG AI pierce all locks .

 

Let's hear your argument for what makes CP3 in the conversation? What makes the other guys a lock?

 

To define, a lock to me is a guy that if their career ended tonight, they would no doubt make the list.