Volquez to the Mets for Jose Reyes?

[spindoc]

This is making me laugh. People really believe Reyes would make the Reds instant title contenders? With or without a SS like Reyes, this team can't win a playoff series with the current makeup of their staff. They have no ace.

That one slipped by me. You have a true gift for inference that I obviously don't have. I never read anyone saying that unless I missed it.

[nkufan23]

This is making me laugh. People really believe Reyes would make the Reds instant title contenders? With or without a SS like Reyes, this team can't win a playoff series with the current makeup of their staff. They have no ace.

 

Whats better for a team supposedly on the rise with high hope for back to back appearances in the playoffs, no ace and no ss or no ace and an all star ss? Everyone knows this is a big season for the Reds to prove they didn't just have a fluke season last year, me thinks the Reds chances to make the playoffs this year increases with Reyes...Reyes doesn't make the Reds instant title contenders but he gives hope to a team with more holes than anticipated at the start of the season, he gives fans something to be excited about...As a Reds fan I refuse to go to games when EV pitches because he greatly decreases my chances of getting my money's worth, also what has EV done for the Reds latley, isn't he in AAA that's not helping the Reds...Essentially your giving up nothing for something even if its for half a season, EV had one good year in a year where the Reds weren't very good and before that he was terrible in his starts with the Rangers...I think there is more proof he will never be anything more than a 3 or 4 starter, than proof he will be a 1...

[Voice of Reason]

I find it quite comical that Reds fans STILL believe Volquez will be a #1. :lol: :lol:

 

Yeah, it's funny isn't it? Kind of reminds how Reds fans all wanted Homer Bailey traded.

[spindoc]

Yeah, it's funny isn't it? Kind of reminds how Reds fans all wanted Homer Bailey traded.

Sure is easy of you to second guess when I just went back and read every Bailey trade thread and you're nowhere to be found, pro or con. Next.

[futurecoach]

Volquez hasn't been healthy for a full summer since his great season in 2008 ... that fact is indisputable. The only reason for the Reds to do this deal is if they're convinced that he won't again be effective in the major leagues. I would be afraid to make that gamble.

 

It's also a fact that he has had ONLY ONE very good year. While all other years he has had starts or he has just average or just plain bad. Sometimes that happens people have just one year where everything is clicking, but doesn't mean they are a very good pitcher. I forget his name but I think it was Steve Parris or something on the Reds in 99 who had a great regular season, and I don't remember hearing much from him ever again. It happens in baseball where guys may just have one good year where everything goes right. That very well may be the case with him, I hope I am wrong.

[Voice of Reason]

One big point I will make that pertains to this thread and most others on baseball. One month is nothing in baseball. Albert Pujols hadn't hit a HR in almost a month. Does that mean he isn't a power hitter any more? So one month is nothing and yet there are fans that want players traded away when they have a bad week. Volquez is stinking it up. Hopefully he will get it together in AAA and get back here quickly. But even if he blows in his next 3 or 4 starts in AAA, I would not give up on him. He has performed at the highest level in the past and that makes me believe he can get there again. I can wait on unique levels of talent to develop. It would take a whole season of this for me to start to think about giving up on him because of that talent. But I am obviously much, much, much more patient than most fans.

[futurecoach]

One big point I will make that pertains to this thread and most others on baseball. One month is nothing in baseball. Albert Pujols hadn't hit a HR in almost a month. Does that mean he isn't a power hitter any more? So one month is nothing and yet there are fans that want players traded away when they have a bad week. Volquez is stinking it up. Hopefully he will get it together in AAA and get back here quickly. But even if he blows in his next 3 or 4 starts in AAA, I would not give up on him. He has performed at the highest level in the past and that makes me believe he can get there again. I can wait on unique levels of talent to develop. It would take a whole season of this for me to start to think about giving up on him because of that talent. But I am obviously much, much, much more patient than most fans.

 

He has only performed at high level one year, lets not make it sound like it is something he has done a lot. He has had one good year and one good year only. Every other year, he at best has been average.

[nkufan23]

It's also a fact that he has had ONLY ONE very good year. While all other years he has had starts or he has just average or just plain bad. Sometimes that happens people have just one year where everything is clicking, but doesn't mean they are a very good pitcher. I forget his name but I think it was Steve Parris or something on the Reds in 99 who had a great regular season, and I don't remember hearing much from him ever again. It happens in baseball where guys may just have one good year where everything goes right. That very well may be the case with him, I hope I am wrong.

 

Couldn't agree more and I can't believe more people aren't using this same logic...Here are some notable one hit wonders...Volquez reminds me a lot of Jose Lima and Sidney Ponson...Great Stuff and no control and in the case of Lima a head case...Also Kent Bottenfield with STL the Cardinals sold high and got Jim Edmonds in return Bottenfeild in any other year would have netted nothing in return...

Jose Mercedes (14-7, 4.02 ERA in 2000)

After five years and a combine record of 11-22, Mercedes surprised the Orioles with 14 wins. The following year would be his last full season, which saw him lose 17 games.

 

Derrick Turnbow (7-1, 1.74 ERA, and 39 saves in 2005)

After toiling as a middle reliever for the Angels, the Brewers were fortunate to pick Derrick off waivers after the 2004 season. He would reward the team with a Rollie Fingeresque season. Though Turnbow saved 24 games the following year, his ERA rose to 6.87 and the Brewers traded for Francisco Cordero at the trade deadline to take over the closing job.

 

Willie Blair (16-8, 4.17 ERA in 1997)

It would take seven seasons before Blair finished a year with double digit wins. He would accomplish the feat again in 2000, going 10-6 with an ERA close to five.

 

Todd Ritchie (15-9 and 3.49 ERA in 1999)

Ritchie pitched for a total of eight seasons and reached double digits in wins one other time.

 

Joe Mays (17-13, 3.16 ERA in 2001)

Mays did not win double digits in any other season.

 

Kent Bottenfield (18-7, 3.97 ERA in 1999)

The St. Louis Cardinals made out like bandits when they signed Bottenfield prior to the '98 season. Not only did they get the 18 wins in '99, they were able to trade him and Adam Kennedy to the Angels for Jim Edmonds. As for Bottenfield, '99 would be the only year that he won double digits.

 

Sidney Ponson (17-12 and 3.75 ERA in 2003)

Though Ponson won more than 10 games three times, 2003 stands out because his ERA was sub-4.00 and he was able to turn this walk year to a nice contract. After he signed the contract, Ponson became a headache on and off the field and was not in good shape. The Orioles actually released him in the middle of his contract.

 

Pete Schourek (18-7, 3.22 ERA, and 160 K in 1995)

Schourek's record was 23-26 in first four seasons prior to his Cy Young type season. Everyone knew that Schourek was a solid back end of the rotation pitcher but you couldn't predict his '95 season. Most people, including myself, didn't expect a follow up and were correct. Pete finished his career winning 25 games during his last six seasons.

 

Jose Lima – SP – Houston

 

Career Year in 199 Win / Loss: 21-10, ERA: 3.58, IP: 246, K’s: 187, WHIP: 1.218

 

Rest of Career Win / Loss: 10-12, ERA: 5.26, IP: 183, K’s: 114, WHIP: 1.388

[UKMustangFan]

That one slipped by me. You have a true gift for inference that I obviously don't have. I never read anyone saying that unless I missed it.

 

Post #36 in response to your question about if the Reyes would put them over the top sure reads that way....

[UKMustangFan]

Whats better for a team supposedly on the rise with high hope for back to back appearances in the playoffs, no ace and no ss or no ace and an all star ss? Everyone knows this is a big season for the Reds to prove they didn't just have a fluke season last year, me thinks the Reds chances to make the playoffs this year increases with Reyes...Reyes doesn't make the Reds instant title contenders but he gives hope to a team with more holes than anticipated at the start of the season, he gives fans something to be excited about...As a Reds fan I refuse to go to games when EV pitches because he greatly decreases my chances of getting my money's worth, also what has EV done for the Reds latley, isn't he in AAA that's not helping the Reds...Essentially your giving up nothing for something even if its for half a season, EV had one good year in a year where the Reds weren't very good and before that he was terrible in his starts with the Rangers...I think there is more proof he will never be anything more than a 3 or 4 starter, than proof he will be a 1...

 

It's irrelevant because they're still out 1st round at best. Why trade a guy with great stuff, if he ever gets it together, who you have for the cheap for the next few seasons for a guy that's going to cost a boatload of cash (you don't have), and then bolt as soon as the playoffs are over?

[Voice of Reason]

He has only performed at high level one year, lets not make it sound like it is something he has done a lot. He has had one good year and one good year only. Every other year, he at best has been average.

 

I agree. And he is only 27. The past two years he was injured. Two years ago before he got hurt he was solid. Last year coming back from TJ surgery he was good enough that the Reds had him their #1 starter in the post season. He was the opening day pitcher this year. I say we give him a second full season to try and find out what he is. I just am not willing to give up on someone with his talent who was an All Star and one of the top rookies in the league in his only full big league season. You all are giving up on him before he has even had a second full season. And there is no way I trade his talent for a player's three month contract run.

[nkufan23]

One big point I will make that pertains to this thread and most others on baseball. One month is nothing in baseball. Albert Pujols hadn't hit a HR in almost a month. Does that mean he isn't a power hitter any more? So one month is nothing and yet there are fans that want players traded away when they have a bad week. Volquez is stinking it up. Hopefully he will get it together in AAA and get back here quickly. But even if he blows in his next 3 or 4 starts in AAA, I would not give up on him. He has performed at the highest level in the past and that makes me believe he can get there again. I can wait on unique levels of talent to develop. It would take a whole season of this for me to start to think about giving up on him because of that talent. But I am obviously much, much, much more patient than most fans.

 

Many fans are patient but also logical, comparing Volquez to Pujols is crazy!!!Has Pujols only been to 1 AS Game, has Pujols ever been demoted to AAA...An average season for Pujols is a career year for most, an average year for Volquez is well idk but not good...If the Reds go thru a whole season of Volquez pitching like this he will have no value to anyone, especially if he blows in his next 3 or 4 starts at AAA...If he is as good as you think he will dominate at AAA...Much of a pitchers initial success is that the hitters he is pitching against have not seen him before, in Edinson's case that has credibility since his first year in the NL is the only year he has ever done anything...Hitters have figured him out he is a head case, take pitches against him and frustrate him, he will eventually juice you one right down the heart...Look at his stats and tell me what he has done prior to his AS year...

Edinson Volquez Career Stats

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/profile.asp?P=Edinson-Volquez

[nkufan23]

Post #36 in response to your question about if the Reyes would put them over the top sure reads that way....

 

That post said would the Reds be leading the division, not winning the pennant...And I said with the way Dusty likes to bat the SS in the 2 spot and the productivity the Reds SS have given them that it is possible if Reyes was batting there instead of Janish or Renteria the Reds could be leading the division...

[Voice of Reason]

Many fans are patient but also logical, comparing Volquez to Pujols is crazy!!!Has Pujols only been to 1 AS Game, has Pujols ever been demoted to AAA...An average season for Pujols is a career year for most, an average year for Volquez is well idk but not good...If the Reds go thru a whole season of Volquez pitching like this he will have no value to anyone, especially if he blows in his next 3 or 4 starts at AAA...If he is as good as you think he will dominate at AAA...Much of a pitchers initial success is that the hitters he is pitching against have not seen him before, in Edinson's case that has credibility since his first year in the NL is the only year he has ever done anything...Hitters have figured him out he is a head case, take pitches against him and frustrate him, he will eventually juice you one right down the heart...Look at his stats and tell me what he has done prior to his AS year...

Edinson Volquez Career Stats

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/profile.asp?P=Edinson-Volquez

 

:lol: :lol: I am not comparing him to Pujols. That was an example that anything can happen in one month in baseball.

 

I have no idea how good Volquez is. I do know talent when I see it. His stuff is among the most dominant in baseball. But he has trouble throwing strikes and that has been a problem throughout his career. Of the Reds pitchers over the past ten years, who had more TALENT than Volquez? Homer Bailey is probably the only one I can think of. If the Reds want to trade Volquez, I am sure every team in baseball will be all ears. We can do much better than a three month run player.

[nkufan23]

It's irrelevant because they're still out 1st round at best. Why trade a guy with great stuff, if he ever gets it together, who you have for the cheap for the next few seasons for a guy that's going to cost a boatload of cash (you don't have), and then bolt as soon as the playoffs are over?

 

Is it a given that the Reds can't get past the playoffs without EV and with Reyes...Considering that EV has cost the Reds many games and is now in AAA and the fact that the Reds are still right in the thick of things this post is not very logical...Losing EV doesn't hurt this year, Reyes Helps, Reds are in contention basically right now without either one so I don't see your point...Also who says the Reds can't resign Reyes, I think people are basing this off of multiple losing seasons and past ownerships...Winning brings Revenue, Revenue brings big names, this is something Reds fans aren't used to but it doesn't mean it can't happen...