Volquez to the Mets for Jose Reyes?

[Voice of Reason]

Is it a given that the Reds can't get past the playoffs without EV and with Reyes...Considering that EV has cost the Reds many games and is now in AAA and the fact that the Reds are still right in the thick of things this post is not very logical...Losing EV doesn't hurt this year, Reyes Helps, Reds are in contention basically right now without either one so I don't see your point...Also who says the Reds can't resign Reyes, I think people are basing this off of multiple losing seasons and past ownerships...Winning brings Revenue, Revenue brings big names, this is something Reds fans aren't used to but it doesn't mean it can't happen...

 

You have been making some good points for your side of the argument until the bold above. The Reds do not have the money to afford Reyes.

[UKMustangFan]

Is it a given that the Reds can't get past the playoffs without EV and with Reyes...Considering that EV has cost the Reds many games and is now in AAA and the fact that the Reds are still right in the thick of things this post is not very logical...Losing EV doesn't hurt this year, Reyes Helps, Reds are in contention basically right now without either one so I don't see your point...Also who says the Reds can't resign Reyes, I think people are basing this off of multiple losing seasons and past ownerships...Winning brings Revenue, Revenue brings big names, this is something Reds fans aren't used to but it doesn't mean it can't happen...

 

I'm saying with or without Reyes, with or without Volquez, heck even with both, they can't get out of the 1st round. There is zero benefit to making the move. None.

[nkufan23]

:lol: :lol: I am not comparing him to Pujols. That was an example that anything can happen in one month in baseball.

 

I have no idea how good Volquez is. I do know talent when I see it. His stuff is among the most dominant in baseball. But he has trouble throwing strikes and that has been a problem throughout his career. Of the Reds pitchers over the past ten years, who had more TALENT than Volquez. Homer Bailey is probably the only one I can think of. If the Reds want to trade Volquez, I am sure every team in baseball will be all ears. We can do much better than a three month run player.

 

Thats the thing throwing strikes is every thing...These hitters in this league are patient and if you have no history of throwing strikes and can't gain the hitters respect that you can learn to throw strikes these hitters are going to sit back and rake his mid 90's heater...It's a serious problem that Volquez is known for not throwing many strikes and also it's not good because he already has such a bad demeanor on the mound, bad attitude and gets frustrated way to easy...Stuff is nice but it won't keep you in the bigs without location...You can make it without the stuff but not the location, actually many of the better pitchers in the league have had only average stuff...Many of the Reds more successful pitchers only have average stuff (Arroyo when healthy, Wood, LeCure, Leake). Even Bailey doesn't have overpowering stuff, its still there but he has toned it down a lot in order to locate his pitches...I think at best EV becomes a Big Z which would obviously be great, but not likely imo...

[nkufan23]

You have been making some good points for your side of the argument until the bold above. The Reds do not have the money to afford Reyes.

 

Hmmm, facts, I need facts to sway my opinion because I am open to switching my opinions given the facts? Do you speak with Mr. Castellini? Reyes is making 11mil, while Coco is making over 12mil...So if they don't resign Coco which I think they wont can't they afford Reyes?

[Voice of Reason]

Thats the thing throwing strikes is every thing...These hitters in this league are patient and if you have no history of throwing strikes and can't gain the hitters respect that you can learn to throw strikes these hitters are going to sit back and rake his mid 90's heater...It's a serious problem that Volquez is known for not throwing many strikes and also it's not good because he already has such a bad demeanor on the mound, bad attitude and gets frustrated way to easy...Stuff is nice but it won't keep you in the bigs without location...You can make it without the stuff but not the location, actually many of the better pitchers in the league have had only average stuff...Many of the Reds more successful pitchers only have average stuff (Arroyo when healthy, Wood, LeCure, Leake). Even Bailey doesn't have overpowering stuff, its still there but he has toned it down a lot in order to locate his pitches...I think at best EV becomes a Big Z which would obviously be great, but not likely imo...

 

I agree with all this except Bailey does have overpowering stuff. I have seen him hit 97 this year and his breaking stuff is pretty nasty. Bailey is looking like the Red most likely to be a true #1 right now. I just need to see him do it for an extended period of time (more than one month ).

 

You and I don't disagree much on Volquez. My big disagreement is on two things ...

 

1. I hate to give up on highly talented pitchers so I am willing to wait. I would rather see Volquez wash out as a Red and we get little for him in trade than to see him become successful somewhere else.

 

2. If I am forced to trade Volquez now, I want more for him than a rent a player. I consider Reyes a rent a player because the Reds will have to compete in the free agent market for him and we both know that they will not be able to compete with the big money teams in free agency.

[HammerTime]

Hmmm, facts, I need facts to sway my opinion because I am open to switching my opinions given the facts? Do you speak with Mr. Castellini? Reyes is making 11mil, while Coco is making over 12mil...So if they don't resign Coco which I think they wont can't they afford Reyes?

 

That money is already spoken for.

[westsider]

It's also a fact that he has had ONLY ONE very good year.

Yes, and since he arrived in the majors to stay, it's the only year that he has been healthy. And, as Voice of Reason pointed out, he's only 27 years old. There have been a lot of pitchers that turned out to be better in their 30s than they ever were in their 20s because of health, maturity or whatever.

[UKMustangFan]

That money is already spoken for.

 

Not only that, but there's also no chance Reyes signs a deal making only $11MM a year....More like $15-17 range.

[westsider]

Not only that, but there's also no chance Reyes signs a deal making only $11MM a year....More like $15-17 range.

But, will a team go that high with Reyes, given his extensive injury history?

[UKMustangFan]

But, will a team go that high with Reyes, given his extensive injury history?

 

I'd say so. A team will overspend for him because of the potential reward if he stays healthy. I could see the Angels or Tigers going after him.

[nkufan23]

That money is already spoken for.

 

My question still is why can't the payroll increase...does payroll stay the same from year to year or is it possible an owner will open his pockets a little more to better the team?

[HammerTime]

It went up 3 Mil in 2010 and 4 more Mil this year. People have to start coming to the ballpark if you want it to keep going up.

[nkufan23]

It went up 3 Mil in 2010 and 4 more Mil this year. People have to start coming to the ballpark if you want it to keep going up.

 

You have to win for them too come.and that's my point this a a year they need to win to keep the excitement in the city going up...The warm weather is here the people will come if the Reds stay in contention...Reyes puts buts in the seats Volquez puts his but on the dugout bench seat after 2 or 3 inn and people hate to go to games he pitches...This is a year that ownership needs to show they are committed to winning and its going to take some moves...If the Reds don't make the playoffs and never make a move lots of people will be unhappy...

[HammerTime]

You have to win for them too come.and that's my point this a a year they need to win to keep the excitement in the city going up...The warm weather is here the people will come if the Reds stay in contention...Reyes puts buts in the seats Volquez puts his but on the dugout bench seat after 2 or 3 inn and people hate to go to games he pitches...This is a year that ownership needs to show they are committed to winning and its going to take some moves...If the Reds don't make the playoffs and never make a move lots of people will be unhappy...

 

I agree, if they keep winning this year the people will come.

[John Anthony]

Reds won't pay over 10 mill fo rReyes will they? No sense in renting him.