If Ohio Div 1 football is so good year in and year out.....

[leatherneck]

why is that some folks attempt to denigrate the Highlands win over Cincy X by claiming that X had a down year last year? The thread comparing Ohio and Ky football got me thinking about that question. Either Ohio D1 football is very good and X's loss to Elder in the playoffs doesn't mean that X was truly down or Oh D1 football isn't as good as its claimed to be year in and year out.

 

Think about it: X lost to a pretty darn good Elder team in the playoffs by a whopping 3 points, but beat them in the regular season 17-7 (I realize that O'Conner got hurt early in the regular season game, but it's not like Elder had no other receivers on their team; heck didn't their tight end go to Notre Dame? And it's not like Elder just dominated X in the playoff win with O'Conner back; they only beat them by 3 points). Elder lost later in the playoffs 24-20 to Hilliard Davidson, who went on to win the D1 state championship. Which tells me that Elder was as close to being as good as the the D1 champion and St X was close to being as good (or maybe was as good as Elder in light of the split in the two games played) as Elder. So if D1 football is as good as many claim (and I'm one of them) then Cincy St. X wasn't near as down as those that try to under value Highlands' win over X last year.

 

If not winning a state championship means X (or Elder, or Colerain or Moeller) was down, then those programs are down almost every year. It's not like X got blown out in their two losses to Ohio D1 schools; they were one or two plays away in both of their losses to Elder and St.Iggy from winning. Maybe in some folks minds two close losses to very good D1 schools means that X was down last year, but if so, doesn't that mean that Oh D1 football was pretty poor last year? To me, it has to be one or the other.

 

And if folks want to argue that Oh D1 football was down last year, how down were they? Considerably? If so, why do you think that happened and what leads you to conclude such was the case?

 

Finally, if Oh D1 football in general, and Cincy St X football specifically, was so down last year, what does it say about T and Lou X's football teams last year? With Cincy X beating them both, I guess that would mean those programs were pretty bad last year (something I do not think was the case).

Edited September 8, 2010 by leatherneck

[2 Humped Camel]

I think it was probably the biggest HHS win in at least a decade. They beat a very good team, a team that is more often than not nationally ranked from my understanding. If people are denigrating the win it's much like blaming the officals after a loss. Excuse making.

[mcpapa]

Sounds like Boise State mentality to me.

 

A Boise State/Highlands wouldn't win out in a power conference like the SEC/GCL; but have a decent chance to win a once-a-year matchup, and often do just that.

 

Until these teams play a meat-grinder schedule and emerge unscathed (and that ain't gonna happen in KY HS football); there will be legions of folks who think the one signature win is an outlier.

[garfish]

It would be impossible to denigrate the Highlands victory over Cincinnati St. X. To attempt to do so would make anyone look silly. Cincinnati was not weak last year. I would say if anything there was not a completely dominating team from Cincinnati, but several who were good enough to contend for the big school Ohio state championship ( Elder, St X , Anderson, Middletown, Moeller,Colerain ) as opposed to this year in which you may see Colerain emerge as a dominating team, or at least the team to beat from Cincinnati. Now being an Ohio resident if anything the Highlands victory over St. X has silenced the masses so to speak and at least Highlands and maybe Kentucky in general has garnered some respect due to this victory. You must remember at the time Highlands and Cincy St X played , Cincinnati St X had disposed of the best team in Indiana ,Indianapolis Cathedral, Louisville St. X( the eventual KY 6A state champion ) and Louisville Trinity.

[History]

The Highlands victory over St. X was at the time arguably the biggest win in Bluebird history. At the same time the Bombers fell well short of their goal (state championship) and high national ranking earlier in the year.

One could argue the Bombers overlooked the Bluebirds due to their very tough regular season schedule. In the end, Highlands beat a very good team from Ohio that didn't fare well at all in the Ohio division 1 playoffs. Those are just the facts.

 

Nobody would claim a team that fell in the second round of the Kentucky playoffs-even if they lost by one point-was a great team. No matter who that team was.

[malachicrunch]

The Highlands victory over St. X was at the time arguably the biggest win in Bluebird history. At the same time the Bombers fell well short of their goal (state championship) and high national ranking earlier in the year.

One could argue the Bombers overlooked the Bluebirds due to their very tough regular season schedule. In the end, Highlands beat a very good team from Ohio that didn't fare well at all in the Ohio division 1 playoffs. Those are just the facts.

 

Nobody would claim a team that fell in the second round of the Kentucky playoffs-even if they lost by one point-was a great team. No matter who that team was.

I think this statement on it's own answers LN's question.

[ft bronc]

The Highlands victory over St. X was at the time arguably the biggest win in Bluebird history. At the same time the Bombers fell well short of their goal (state championship) and high national ranking earlier in the year.

One could argue the Bombers overlooked the Bluebirds due to their very tough regular season schedule. In the end, Highlands beat a very good team from Ohio that didn't fare well at all in the Ohio division 1 playoffs. Those are just the facts.

 

Nobody would claim a team that fell in the second round of the Kentucky playoffs-even if they lost by one point-was a great team. No matter who that team was.

 

That's a pretty big blanket statement. So if you lost to the eventual state championship team in the second round, there's no possible way you could consider yourself a great team?

[Jumper_Dad]

The Highlands victory over St. X was at the time arguably the biggest win in Bluebird history. At the same time the Bombers fell well short of their goal (state championship) and high national ranking earlier in the year.

One could argue the Bombers overlooked the Bluebirds due to their very tough regular season schedule. In the end, Highlands beat a very good team from Ohio that didn't fare well at all in the Ohio division 1 playoffs. Those are just the facts.

 

Nobody would claim a team that fell in the second round of the Kentucky playoffs-even if they lost by one point-was a great team. No matter who that team was.

I felt this was a "Trap Game" for St. X at the time. No disrespect to HHS but this was no where near as high profile game for St X as the games before or the week after. That schedule of St X was a killer at the begining of the season last year and their players may have looked past the game with the boys from Kentucky until it was too late.

[History]

That's a pretty big blanket statement. So if you lost to the eventual state championship team in the second round, there's no possible way you could consider yourself a great team?

 

Not in Kentucky.

[malachicrunch]

Not in Kentucky.

 

Who's the team that lost in the second round in Ky that's claiming greatness?

[leatherneck]

I felt this was a "Trap Game" for St. X at the time. No disrespect to HHS but this was no where near as high profile game for St X as the games before or the week after. That schedule of St X was a killer at the begining of the season last year and their players may have looked past the game with the boys from Kentucky until it was too late.

 

Understood about the "trap game" perspective.

 

On the other side of the coin however consider the following and let me know if you still think Highlands win may have been more attributable to X just over looking Highlands than Highlands actually being better than X: you have a St X team nationally ranked and wanting I'm sure to be ranked higher, playing another nationally ranked team on national TV. You have some high profile X players like Massa and James who I'm sure wanted to put on a great "showing" on TV. X also surely had the additional motivation of not wanting to be the first Cincy big school team to lose to Highlands in a long, long time, but had to have known that other than the Colerain blowout win over Highlands, Highlands had played Elder and Colerain pretty darn close over the years. You had some serious Harbin points in play. Specht is an excellent coach that you just know was telling his kids not to overlook Highlands. You have to think that Specht had talked to Rodenberg about Highlands, both from his CovCath coaching experience as well as the 7/7 experience as the coach of Moeller against Highlands early that summer in which Highlands had been very, very successful against Moeller. Finally, it's not like Dale kept Highlands national championship aspirations or talent level a "secret" (personally I'd have preferred he had been just a "little more quiet":D). I'm sure a lot of the newspaper articles containing Dale quotes had to have been read by the X players and perhaps been on the locker room walls at X. So if the X players.

 

Personally, I'm not sure I agree that the games against Lou X and Trinity immediately proceeding the Highlands game were more high profile than a game against another nationally ranked team on national TV. But I'll agree that the game the following week against Elder may have been of greater significance. But even so, at some point in the game against Highlands, shouldn't the X players "woke up"? They didn't score until seconds were left in the game after Highlands went into a "we'll let them score, but we won't let them score fast" defense.

[jbwill2]

You must remember at the time Highlands and Cincy St X played , Cincinnati St X had disposed of the best team in Indiana ,Indianapolis Cathedral, Louisville St. X( the eventual KY 6A state champion ) and Louisville Trinity.

Don't forget that Cincy St. X had also defeated Colerain as well. At the time the HHS-St. X game was played, Cincy St. X's resume was arguably the most impressive in the nation, given that they were undefeated and had beaten Cincy Colerain, Ind. Cathedral, Lou. St. X and Lou. Trinity; plus, the Lou. St. X and Trinity games were fairly lopsided wins. The week after they lost to HHS, Cincy St. X took care of Elder. The losses to Iggy and Elder (in the playoffs) did take a bit away from the luster, IMO.

[History]

Who's the team that lost in the second round in Ky that's claiming greatness?

 

Nobody-simply stating that some are saying St. X was a great team last year when they lost in the second round of the playoofs-but that was Ohio. Nobody would make the same claim if they lost in the second round of the playoffs in Kentucky.

[jbwill2]

Someone previously made a comparison with Boise St; this week, when I have listened to the discussion about whether Boise St.'s big win over VT should possibly earn them a spot in the title game, I immediately thought about HHS' situation last year vis a vis the national title debate. Obviously, KY football is nowhere near the top of prep football (just as Boise St's conference is nowhere near the BCS conferences); however, if a team takes care of all its business, including beating a first-rate opponent, it's hard to just dismiss them without giving them at least some consideration.

 

I know one thing for sure: there are a lot of Boise St. fans who are now huge VT fans, hoping that they win out, just as there were a whole lotta Highlands fans who became big Bombers supporters following the HHS-St. X game! I know I was bummed when St. X lost to Iggy and then got knocked out of the Ohio playoffs a few weeks later.

[Voice of Reason]

Anyone discounting Highlands' win over St. X. last year is either a hater or not paying attenion. Cinti. St. X.'s only regular season losses last year were to Highlands and Cleveland St. Ignatius, who finished the year ranked #1 in Ohio. I said it before last season and I still say it today - that was the best Highlands team ever... yes better than the the Lorenzen/Smith team of 1999. And I say that because of the St. X. win. That 1999 team lost their Ohio GCL showdown to Elder. Last year's team won their GCL showdown over a very good St. X team. Facts are facts. The 2009 team gets my vote as best ever because of that St. X. win.