Track the NBA Finals (Celtics vs Lakers)

[MJAlltheWay24]

Me neither. Kobe is the only Laker I can remotely stand.

 

Kobe and Fisher...but I actually really like Fisher.

[MJAlltheWay24]

The Celtics fans complaining about flops. Classic. Oh wait you guys aren't even Celtic fans just Lakers haters.

 

Not a Celtics fan, nor a Laker hater. Simply a fan of good basketball and while Gasol plays wonderful basketball on the offensive end, his complete flops game in and game out make me lose all kind of respect for him as a basketball player, just like many other floppers have. I am okay with one every now and then to sell a call, but it happens by him all to often. Throw Paul Pierce in that mix (at least in my opinion) and that will make it look less like Laker hatred.

 

And on another note...we have yet to see Rondo's best basketball, spanning for a season.

[jvdfc]

Celtics have to have Ray Allen clicking on Offense to win against the Lakers. It also seemed like the Lakers got all the loose or 50/50 balls last night.

[5wide]

Rondo doesn't always have the prettiest game, but it's hard to argue with the results. CP3 and Williams are great, but Rondo is more of a triple double threat and can absolutely dominate a series. He can just do things that none of the others can do, but to each his own. :thumb: I still can't imagine him not being worthy of a max deal the way he has played this year and in all 3 of he last post seasons.

 

Like he's dominated the finals? Rondo was huge in Game Two, but he's not been a huge presence in the other two games. In the two losses, he's averaging 12 ppg, 8 apg, 4.5 rpg, and 1 steal.

 

Look, the only point I'm arguing is your assertion that he's the clear pick as the top PG. I disagree. There are still a few guys I'd take over Rondo, and I don't find any difficulty in justifying Chris Paul or Deron Williams over him. And, no, shooting isn't an absolute pre-requisite to being an elite PG, as the examples noted would prove. However, it's a big advantage that guys like Paul and Williams have over him. In my book, Rondo is certainly in the upper echelon of NBA PG's, but he's not the best. Not yet. He could be, but I think he'll need to keep improving his shooting to get there. He's 4 of 13 from the FT line in the finals. That's beyond unnacceptable for any position, much less your PG.

 

Can anyone who watched last night's game truly say that Rondo's presence on offense didn't make life easier for the Laker's D? Kobe (or whoever is guarding him) never has to extend beyond the foul line. That's a huge advantage for the Lakers when it comes to dominating the paint and defending Ray Allen. If Rondo isn't getting off elsewhere, he can be a liability on the offensive end. He didn't have a single offensive rebound last night.

 

I just think people, in typical fashion, have elevated him beyond what he is due to the combination of some great playoff performances and the absence of the other PG's from the scene. But, he's a great player. He's the key to Boston's chances and their best player.

[bugatti]

For those mentioning Jason Kidd, Derrick Rose, and Magic Johnson not being able to shoot as Rondo cannot shoot, they are confident and willing enough to take an uncontested FT distance jump shot. Bryant or whomever is guarding him can sag off Rajon to within 7 feet of the rim. Do not get me wrong, I love Rondo and he is an amazing top tier point guard, but often times he puts his teammates in bad situations because he has 0 confidence in his jump shot making ability. Whether his prowess in all other aspects of his game make him a max contract guy, I can't really say. The Celtics know his value and rewarded him as such recently.

[bugatti]

There are a few ways to look at this game IMO. One is that LA won a hard fought game in Boston. The other is that it was a hard fought game even though Paul Pierce and Ray Allen shot about as bad as possible.

When it comes down to it, neither team has put together a really good game from start to finish. The closest being the Lakers in Game 1. Even last night, with the exception of Fisher in the 4th, the Lakers were horrendous at their key positions shooting the ball yet were still able to win.

[5wide]

I didn't know that outside shooting was a prerequisite to being a top level PG. Someone should tell Magic Johnson that.

 

Not to belabor the point, but if you really want to throw Magic in the comparison with Rondo...

 

There are a few key differences. One, Magic Johnson was 6'9. He could post up and play with his back to the basket against anyone in the league, and would have a significant advatantage over pretty much any guard who tried to defend him there. Rondo doesn't have that aspect in his game. Two, he could shoot FT's. Other than his second and third seasons in which he shot 76%, he was at 80% or better throughout his career. He was just under 85% for his career. Finally, Magical Johnson (as Ron Burgundy would say) improved his shooting over time. He shot nearly 36% from long range in the last 4 years of his career.

 

There's nothing Rondo can do about the size, but if his shooting, particularly from the FT line doesn't improve, that's on him.

[5wide]

The Celtics fans complaining about flops. Classic. Oh wait you guys aren't even Celtic fans just Lakers haters.

 

Nice. A guy I work with complains about Fisher and Gasol all the time...no mention of Ray Allen's multiple flops in this series and Paul Pierce's Miller-esque flailing.

 

They all do it. It's just more annoying to see it from a team you don't like.

 

As much as the guy hates Fisher, last night had to be painful.

[5wide]

LeBron still has time. And you can't honestly say that there would not be a good chance he would already of had a title or two playing beside Gasol or a Shaq in his prime. Kobe fans love to leave out the fact that you need a good sidekick. Call it an excuse but even if it is, history suggest that it is valid.

 

 

 

Everyone has bad games. It's hard for Rondo to have a great statline when Pierce and Allen aren't hitting shots, wouldn't you say?

 

What's the excuse for 3 rebounds? The way those guys were shooting, he had plenty of opportunities.

 

For the record, I'd pay Rondo maximum money. Not because he deserves it now, but because of his potential. He's turned into a top notch player as is, but if he develops a shot, everything changes. To me, it's risk/reward. Some would say he's worth it now, as is. So, if all you get is the current Rondo, it's arguable whether you've overpaid. But, if he learns to shoot, you've almost certainly got the league's top PG.

[Hangman]

I went to the movies last night so didn't get to watch anything except the last 5 minutes of the game... But needless to say, I'm very disappointed in the outcome.

 

Gotta win game 4!

[Rockstar]

I thought the last few possessions for the Celtics were horrendous. The first starting when they were losing 84-80 (I think was the score) and they draw up a play for Ray Allen (who hasn't made a shot all night) to shoot a 3. This is with a minute or so left. Of course, he missed, Lakers fast break, Derek Fisher, and 1. Big Baby and KG were playing so good at this point, why not work it down low to them, try to get a layup or at worst a trip to the FT line. Then, shortly thereafter (now down 7 points), they do an Oop (if you can even call it that) to KG. NOW they want to work it down low?

 

I just didn't understand what they were doing. Say what you want about the refs, they were awful both ways. Horrible no-calls, and even worse calls.

[5wide]

When it comes down to it, neither team has put together a really good game from start to finish. The closest being the Lakers in Game 1. Even last night, with the exception of Fisher in the 4th, the Lakers were horrendous at their key positions shooting the ball yet were still able to win.

 

I can't help but wonder if the cross-country flight and only one day off played a role in last night's performances. I've seen Kobe go 10 of 29 before, but not in as grand a fashion as last night. He had some ugly misses, bricks off the backboard, etc. Ray Allen goes 0-fer. If you take Kobe and Ray out of the game, both teams shot over 50%. Jump shooters are going to be affected the most by less rest and travel. I think it showed last night.

 

I don't think either team has played its best basketball yet. But, the key for LA is their defense. They played very good defense last night, especially in the paint, and they have all series, IMO. If they continue doing that, I like their chances, because it forces Boston to rely on hitting jump shots. In a defensive struggle, the Lakers advantage in the paint gives them a greater ability to get easy baskets and get to the free throw line...both can be the difference in a close, lower scoring game.

 

Kobe hasn't played great in this series. I have to believe he'll be on at some point. He really hurt the team last night. He kept forcing shots, going one-on-one, and it lead to the offense bogging down, IMO. Instead of moving the ball like they did when they built the lead, Kobe took the air out of the ball. He nearly cost them this game. He owes Fisher his paycheck, because he bailed him out.

 

The Lakers are the better team, IMO, and I'm confident they'll win this series if they keep their focus. The biggest concern for LA coming in was how their bigs would perform against Boston's physical, defensive-minded style. I'd say they've answered that one emphatically. Unless something changes in that regard, that puts big pressure on Pierce and Allen to make up the difference. Enter Ron Artest.

 

Pierce is shooting 36.1%, averagin 16 pts, 5 reb, and 3 ast. In the '08 finals, when he was 30 and Artest was in Houston (I believe), he averaged 22 pts, 5 reb, 6 ast and shot over 43%...and that's including a horrible Game Three when he went 2 of 14 and scored 6 points.

 

A lot has been made of the '08 finals, but the two big differences for LA have had a huge impact. Artest with his ability to defend Pierce has significantly reduced his impact on the games. And, Bynum is averaging 13 pts, 7 reb and almost 3 blocks. Imagine this series with no Bynum or Artest.

 

The Lakers have room for error now. Odom was a non-factor in the first two and they split...Kobe played bad last night and they still won. That wasn't the case in '08.

 

I don't think either team can really point to one guy having a bad game, because it seems like both teams have had a key player or two that hasn't given them much in every game.

[5wide]

I thought the last few possessions for the Celtics were horrendous. The first starting when they were losing 84-80 (I think was the score) and they draw up a play for Ray Allen (who hasn't made a shot all night) to shoot a 3. This is with a minute or so left. Of course, he missed, Lakers fast break, Derek Fisher, and 1. Big Baby and KG were playing so good at this point, why not work it down low to them, try to get a layup or at worst a trip to the FT line. Then, shortly thereafter (now down 7 points), they do an Oop (if you can even call it that) to KG. NOW they want to work it down low?

 

I just didn't understand what they were doing. Say what you want about the refs, they were awful both ways. Horrible no-calls, and even worse calls.

 

I thought the refs were better last night. I can live with it.

 

The lapse by the entire Boston team that allowed Fisher to push the lead to 7 was huge. The stretch run's of Game Two and Three were almost the same. The Lakers fell apart and Rondo took over in Game Two. Last night, Boston fell apart and Fisher took over.

 

It's funny about Fisher. He constantly gets criticized for other PG's playing well against him, but Lakers fans know why he's out there. He is clutch. He comes up big for them time after time. Fisher is older for sure, but he gives LA what they need at the point. And, never mind that the PG's in the western conference that abuse him do the same to pretty much everybody.

[MJAlltheWay24]

I just didn't understand what they were doing. Say what you want about the refs, they were awful both ways. Horrible no-calls, and even worse calls.

 

I have no dog in this fight. I like Fisher and Kobe, while at the same time I would love to see Phil Jackson get another ring. I'm a big Ray Allen, KG, and Rondo fan...so I could care less who wins, but I just want to see good basketball.

 

With all that said, I've only been able to watch two games thus far in the series and I really feel like the officiating has been very bad. I feel like they try and find ticky-tacky fouls on some of the best players early and that effects the rest of the game. Let them play a little. But, at least they are consistantly bad on both ends of the floor.

[5wide]

I have no dog in this fight. I like Fisher and Kobe, while at the same time I would love to see Phil Jackson get another ring. I'm a big Ray Allen, KG, and Rondo fan...so I could care less who wins, but I just want to see good basketball.

 

With all that said, I've only been able to watch two games thus far in the series and I really feel like the officiating has been very bad. I feel like they try and find ticky-tacky fouls on some of the best players early and that effects the rest of the game. Let them play a little. But, at least they are consistantly bad on both ends of the floor.

 

I see it the same way. I would add that the ticky-tacks are magnified, IMO, by the fact that they'll call one after allowing the players to mug each other prior to it. They've been maddeningly inconsistent.

 

But, last night was better. I wouldn't call it great, but not nearly as bad as Game Two.