I never really stated my position when I made my first post. I think at some point felons should have the opportunity to get their voting rights restored. I think that point can be at the time of release. I do agree somewhat to this being on a case by case basis or maybe a crime by crime basis. For instance if someone is convicted of any kind of tampering or fraud that has to due with voting, I think they gave up their rights. Or habitual offenders, I wouldn't be as keen to giving them their voting rights back. I don't think it should be just an automatic across the board thing. And honestly if our laws were pruned substantially I'm not for sure if I would be in favor of giving felons their voting rights back at all.

 

I do have a major problem with incarcerated felons having the right to vote.

 

The article mentioned Governor Beshear streamlining the process, I wonder what the specifics are of this. It seems pretty politically expedient if he changed the rules in time for election day.

Why should they?

They violated laws and paid the price, knowing that being caught results in certain liberties being taken away.

 

Do we let all ex-cons have guns? Do we let sexual predators off the lists because of time served? Where does it end? They violated the rights of others with their acts, what makes them victims now after being the victimizer?

 

(I know mistakes can be made. One can mistakenly take a newspaper without paying. One can drive off after filling a car up thinking the spouse paid for the fuel. One does not accidentally rape/mutilate an 8 year old or pistol whip a clerk in a convience store. What gives them the right to perform these actions and expect total forgiveness for serving a sentence, which was liberally cut down in time anyway. Most catch the biggest break of all liberties just in the fact we don't execute much anymore. Responsibility for our actions. Why should they get the right to vote?

 

I think we should send them to Cuba.:thumb:

(I know mistakes can be made. One can mistakenly take a newspaper without paying. One can drive off after filling a car up thinking the spouse paid for the fuel. One does not accidentally rape/mutilate an 8 year old or pistol whip a clerk in a convience store. What gives them the right to perform these actions and expect total forgiveness for serving a sentence, which was liberally cut down in time anyway. Most catch the biggest break of all liberties just in the fact we don't execute much anymore. Responsibility for our actions. Why should they get the right to vote?

 

It actually doesn't take much to receive a felony these days. Go to norml.org and check out some states marijuana laws. I think Ohio is one of the strictest. If I remember correctly selling more than the equivalent of two joints and you are a felon.

OK. But is it not illegal drugs still? You know you are in the wrong to posses/deal at all, do you not? Drug dealing is drug dealing, a joint or a kilo. You know that it is illegal.

 

I'm not arguing the felony point, I am saying that they know basic right and wrong and commit the crime anyway. If you know it's wrong, and you get caught, no one to blame but you and you have to deal with the fallout.

This bothers me much less than the voting fraud efforts by groups like ACORN in battleground states like Ohio. The voting rights of convicted felons should be automatically restored when they are no longer incarcerated and no longer on parole. I do not expect that felons could be relied upon to turnout to vote in large numbers on election day and if I were a volunteer vote hauler, I would be less than enthusiastic about transporting convicted car jackers to the polls.

Just because they "did their time" is not enough. What if they are on parole? They did their time. No one "does their time" anyway. They serve 1/4 or 1/2 of what they are sentenced and then walk free.

Rights should be forfeited until they can prove they are productive, law abiding citizenry.

This is not a game of golf where we can get a mulligan. They messed up badly enought to be incarcerated, and part of the punishment is surrendering certain rights. The old cliche "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time" rings true here. Part of "the time" is what happens after actual incarceration.

 

It depends if you are in VA or not. VA has the "3 strikes rule." If you are convicted of a 3rd Felony you get an automatic sentence with no parole possibility.

 

Everybody's state is different.

While I'll agree with "No child left behind", I suppose that our Homeland security wasn't a necessity after 9/11.:confused: And for what it's worth, besides the probable appointment of 2 or possibly 3 liberal SC judges, our more than questionable "homeland security" under Obamas watch is my biggest fear.

 

Homeland Security replicated the activities of a lot of existing agencies. Instead of re-tooling what existed to meet the new threat/need, a whole new agency/beauracracy was created. For better or for worse it was a government expansion.

 

You did not comment on the bailout but if that wasn't a HUGE step in Big government I'm not sure anything this side of the Great Society/New Deal counts. :thumb:

OK. But is it not illegal drugs still? You know you are in the wrong to posses/deal at all, do you not? Drug dealing is drug dealing, a joint or a kilo. You know that it is illegal.

 

I'm not arguing the felony point, I am saying that they know basic right and wrong and commit the crime anyway. If you know it's wrong, and you get caught, no one to blame but you and you have to deal with the fallout.

In an attempt to not threadjack, I was just trying to show that there are a lot of "lesser crimes" that are punishable buy felony than the two you depicted in your post.

 

If you want to discuss the legality of marijuana or any other drug, I'd be more than happy to do it in it's own thread...

Because they paid their debt to society.

 

Where should it stop on the other end? Should they be allowed a driver's license? Be able to run for office? Surely you think they should still pay taxes, so why shouldn't they be allowed to vote?

I agree. If you're going to return them to society, then give them back their citizen rights. Otherwise, keep them locked up.

Question. If they (a felon) paid their debt to society, should they then be allowed to own a gun? After all, should their rights not be restored?

Question. If they (a felon) paid their debt to society, should they then be allowed to own a gun? After all, should their rights not be restored?

Yes. If they are reformed criminals, then they will be responsible gun owners. If not, then no law is going to keep them from owning a gun if they choose to do so.

Just because they have done their time does not mean they are necessarily reformed criminals. Just because you regain the right to join society again shouldn't necessarily mean you have a clean slate.... ie- sex offenders not being allowed to live close to schools, etc.

Question. If they (a felon) paid their debt to society, should they then be allowed to own a gun? After all, should their rights not be restored?

 

Yes. That's probably a tougher sell, though, in the case of felons who committed crimes using guns.

Just because they have done their time does not mean they are necessarily reformed criminals. Just because you regain the right to join society again shouldn't necessarily mean you have a clean slate.... ie- sex offenders not being allowed to live close to schools, etc.

 

Which is also a stupid law.

Just because they have done their time does not mean they are necessarily reformed criminals. Just because you regain the right to join society again shouldn't necessarily mean you have a clean slate.... ie- sex offenders not being allowed to live close to schools, etc.

 

One could also be a criminal who hasn't been convicted yet(for whatever reason) That person would still have thier right to vote.