Where would Phil Simms be now if...

[LUCK]

But I understand it's basis as NKY has seen many of a player developed in the MS level by a public school where the coaching staff and program has committed time and playing minutes to the player, only to see them jump to a larger public school or a private school.

 

These kids aren't comodities owned by either system. Herein lies most of the problem with the KHSAA (athletic directors and school superintendants especially), acting as if the kids are their's. They are not. These proposals have nothing to do about fairness if they did the KHSAA would begin to enforce the rules they now have in place. It is all about winning. Treating kids as "mine and ours" is a big mistake and will lead only to the detriment of Kentucky high school kids.

[theguru]

Just wait. People will come on here and argue that it is not their choosing. Just wait...

 

I have been fighting that battle for years.

 

Again, in case anyone forgot, you can't self impose restrictions on your own school district and then complain that others won't do the same. The practice is not only stupid but it is un-American.

[CentreRocks]

I have been fighting that battle for years.

 

Again, in case anyone forgot, you can't self impose restrictions on your own school district and then complain that others won't do the same. The practice is not only stupid but it is un-American.

I think if the public school out in the state people understood that, there would be no need for this forum.

[Long Time Warrior]

I have been fighting that battle for years.

 

Again, in case anyone forgot, you can't self impose restrictions on your own school district and then complain that others won't do the same. The practice is not only stupid but it is un-American.

 

I'm not for sure why but I believe this rule is in place in order to divide the kids in a living area to attend a certain school because of population. That way 75% of kids don't try to go to one school and 25% to another. They get divided out 50/50. In the Pulaski Co. area it's city school district and then Pulaski Co. gets north side and Southwestern gets south side. The reasoning is so all kids don't try to go to one school. Therefor leaving the other school with no kids, or teachers jobs. I believe this is correct. Now, I'm in no way disagreeing with you about just having open inrollment but then there lies within the scope of who is allowed in and who isn't argument.

[rockmom]

I'm not for sure why but I believe this rule is in place in order to divide the kids in a living area to attend a certain school because of population. That way 75% of kids don't try to go to one school and 25% to another. They get divided out 50/50. In the Pulaski Co. area it's city school district and then Pulaski Co. gets north side and Southwestern gets south side. The reasoning is so all kids don't try to go to one school. Therefor leaving the other school with no kids, or teachers jobs. I believe this is correct. Now, I'm in no way disagreeing with you about just having open inrollment but then there lies within the scope of who is allowed in and who isn't argument.

 

 

What you say is true, on a District by District basis. Some districts choose to allow students to attend any school, but still have limits on enrollment so that one school isn't overcrowded and another sitting way under capacity. In Jeffereson County, we have Open Enrollment, and the process is pretty straight forward. You apply to attend the school of your choice, and if you don't get in, you can apply to another school, or attend the school in your "home" district. That's a simplified version, but basically the deal.

[tcjkbt]

I'm not for sure why but I believe this rule is in place in order to divide the kids in a living area to attend a certain school because of population. That way 75% of kids don't try to go to one school and 25% to another. They get divided out 50/50. In the Pulaski Co. area it's city school district and then Pulaski Co. gets north side and Southwestern gets south side. The reasoning is so all kids don't try to go to one school. Therefor leaving the other school with no kids, or teachers jobs. I believe this is correct. Now, I'm in no way disagreeing with you about just having open inrollment but then there lies within the scope of who is allowed in and who isn't argument.

Doesn't competition remedy this situation? If the one school is inferior to the point that it is able to attract only one-half of its projected enrollment, shouldn't the governing school board administrators take a hard look at the other school and see what it is doing right (differently) and if necessary adjust the school budgets for physical plant improvements or to attract the better teachers? Make it so the inferior school competes with the better school. This to me seems like a common sensical, win-win answer to the problem. BTW, in this type of situation could you honestly blame parents for sending their kid to a private school?

[ladiesbballcoach]

I've been trying to make this point alll along. They already do do it themselves.

 

Any school district in this state that does not have open enrollment, CHOOSES to be that way.

 

And that is a fact.

Technically, yes.

Reality, no.

Geography has a little to do with it too.

Deming can vote to go open enrollment but because of their geographical distance from urban areas, it won't really matter.

 

Open Enrollment for Kenton, Boone and Campbell Counties is a much different creature than open enrollment for a Bracken, Pendleton, Owen, Grant, Henry.

 

Surely you don't believe that opening their borders for a Robertson County (Deming) will have the SAME effect as Kenton County (Dixie Heights, Simon Kenton, Scott) opening up their borders?

[ladiesbballcoach]

Doesn't competition remedy this situation? If the one school is inferior to the point that it is able to attract only one-half of its projected enrollment, shouldn't the governing school board administrators take a hard look at the other school and see what it is doing right (differently) and if necessary adjust the school budgets for physical plant improvements or to attract the better teachers? Make it so the inferior school competes with the better school. This to me seems like a common sensical, win-win answer to the problem. BTW, in this type of situation could you honestly blame parents for sending their kid to a private school?

Highlands parents are unbelievably supportive and interested in making sure their children are receiving a great education.

 

I would hazard a guess that Holmes parents don't have that same level of concern ACROSS THE BOARD.

 

This is the #1 thing that will effect a child's education.

 

How is the governing school board administrators supposed to change this?

[ladiesbballcoach]

What you say is true, on a District by District basis. Some districts choose to allow students to attend any school, but still have limits on enrollment so that one school isn't overcrowded and another sitting way under capacity. In Jeffereson County, we have Open Enrollment, and the process is pretty straight forward. You apply to attend the school of your choice, and if you don't get in, you can apply to another school, or attend the school in your "home" district. That's a simplified version, but basically the deal.

So is there the POSSIBILITY that a bad student could be rejected so that the star athlete makes it in?

 

Sounds like a great system.:irked:

 

One problem I have with open enrollment and this is a NON-SPORT problem.

 

Let's say District A is full of low-income, high crime area. If that is what the kids are seeing at home, good chance they are going to have similar mindsets and bring them with them to school.

 

So now you have a family that education IS IMPORTANT to them and they take their child out of the school and transport them to the other district that has a community fully supportive of schools.

 

THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM WITH OPEN ENROLLMENT.

 

But then the reputation of District A becomes that it is a poor school system. That they are terrible teachers and their state test scores are horrible and the state looks to take them over.

 

And that might be the furthest thing from the truth. They could/probably are very good teachers that are trying really hard in a horrible situation. They are dealing with problems that the supposed "good" school district does not have to deal with. THey probably are better teachers and do a better job because they are brining their students farther with less support.

 

But the supposed "good" district will be seen as the district with "good" teachers and doing a "good" job. And that might/probably not accurate.

 

Parents have as much if not more effect/control of the student's education than the teachers.

 

I submit that the teachers at some of the inner city, low-scoring schools are doing better jobs than the teachers at private and highly rated public schools.

 

My problem is not with the moving of students but the assumption that the teachers are not doing their jobs. Sometimes the reason why the students are failing are reasons that society in general has never been able to cure and yet schools are seen as failures because they haven't overcome those ills either.

 

So you have open enrollment for all schools and students leave in droves from District A for reasons that District A CANNOT solve. I fear we do that and we get back into the mindset of "separate but equal" schools.

 

Where the low-income (majority would be minority ethnic races) are kept at one school while others are herded into other schools.

[tcjkbt]

If it is a problem that cannot be corrected because of society's ills, is it time to give vouchers a chance and let those kids who want to do well be given that opportunity?

[ladiesbballcoach]

If it is a problem that cannot be corrected because of society's ills, is it time to give vouchers a chance and let those kids who want to do well be given that opportunity?

Please see the end of my post right above yours.

 

And I am on record as supportive of vouchers.

[rockmom]

So is there the POSSIBILITY that a bad student could be rejected so that the star athlete makes it in?

 

Sounds like a great system.:irked:

Athletics are not a part of the application process. I'm sure Manual's football team would be even more stellar if that were the case.

 

One problem I have with open enrollment and this is a NON-SPORT problem.

 

Let's say District A is full of low-income, high crime area. If that is what the kids are seeing at home, good chance they are going to have similar mindsets and bring them with them to school.

 

So now you have a family that education IS IMPORTANT to them and they take their child out of the school and transport them to the other district that has a community fully supportive of schools.

 

THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM WITH OPEN ENROLLMENT.

 

But then the reputation of District A becomes that it is a poor school system. That they are terrible teachers and their state test scores are horrible and the state looks to take them over.

 

And that might be the furthest thing from the truth. They could/probably are very good teachers that are trying really hard in a horrible situation. They are dealing with problems that the supposed "good" school district does not have to deal with. THey probably are better teachers and do a better job because they are brining their students farther with less support.

 

But the supposed "good" district will be seen as the district with "good" teachers and doing a "good" job. And that might/probably not accurate.

 

Parents have as much if not more effect/control of the student's education than the teachers.

 

I submit that the teachers at some of the inner city, low-scoring schools are doing better jobs than the teachers at private and highly rated public schools.

 

My problem is not with the moving of students but the assumption that the teachers are not doing their jobs. Sometimes the reason why the students are failing are reasons that society in general has never been able to cure and yet schools are seen as failures because they haven't overcome those ills either.

 

So you have open enrollment for all schools and students leave in droves from District A for reasons that District A CANNOT solve. I fear we do that and we get back into the mindset of "separate but equal" schools.

 

Where the low-income (majority would be minority ethnic races) are kept at one school while others are herded into other schools.

 

Of course, to again use Jefferson County as an example, Magnet programs have been created to draw students to schools for specific programs. Waggner has a culinary program. Fairdale, Eastern & J-Town, computer technology. Seneca, theatre arts. There are ways to attract students to schools some may see as less desirable. It's about creating opportunities and mixing them in across the system.

 

I'm sorry you're angry.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Athletics are not a part of the application process. I'm sure Manual's football team would be even more stellar if that were the case.

 

 

 

Of course, to again use Jefferson County as an example, Magnet programs have been created to draw students to schools for specific programs. Waggner has a culinary program. Fairdale, Eastern & J-Town, computer technology. Seneca, theatre arts. There are ways to attract students to schools some may see as less desirable. It's about creating opportunities and mixing them in across the system.

 

I'm sorry you're angry.

I am not angry but frustrated that people are quick to label the teachers in a certain system as not doing enough or poor teachers when they have absolutely 0 control on the issues that make their students fail in school. An issue that NO ONE in this country has been able to solve. But yet, schools are considering as failing when they can't solve the same problem, no one else can.

 

I understand what Jefferson County can do. With the exception of maybe Fayette County, no one else can do that. It is irrelevant to the rest of the state.

 

As far as the application process, I went to college at a small college that has about 12 applicants for every freshmen that gets in. Amazingly, a basketball recruit has NEVER, to my knowledge, been turned down as the 11 others would. And athletics is NOT part of the application process.

[rockmom]

I am not angry but frustrated that people are quick to label the teachers in a certain system as not doing enough or poor teachers when they have absolutely 0 control on the issues that make their students fail in school. An issue that NO ONE in this country has been able to solve. But yet, schools are considering as failing when they can't solve the same problem, no one else can.

 

I understand what Jefferson County can do. With the exception of maybe Fayette County, no one else can do that. It is irrelevant to the rest of the state.

 

As far as the application process, I went to college at a small college that has about 12 applicants for every freshmen that gets in. Amazingly, a basketball recruit has NEVER, to my knowledge, been turned down as the 11 others would. And athletics is NOT part of the application process.

 

 

I don't think anyone here has blamed teachers.

 

My problem with the mindset you present is that if it's good for the rest of the state, it must be good enough for Jefferson County, or Fayette County.

 

That's not true. And that's why I feel that enrollment policies are best left for each district to decide for themselves what's best. But, if your district doesn't choose, or can't choose the same as another, then it's not a question of inequity. The goal is to do the best for the students, isn't it?

 

Whatever your experience at the college level, I don't think it's fair to assume that every other school, secondary or post-secondary would have the same issues. And, as you admit, to your knowledge a basketball recruit never was refused admittance. But, that doesn't prove it didn't happen.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I don't think anyone here has blamed teachers.

 

My problem with the mindset you present is that if it's good for the rest of the state, it must be good enough for Jefferson County, or Fayette County.

 

That's not true. And that's why I feel that enrollment policies are best left for each district to decide for themselves what's best. But, if your district doesn't choose, or can't choose the same as another, then it's not a question of inequity. The goal is to do the best for the students, isn't it?

 

Whatever your experience at the college level, I don't think it's fair to assume that every other school, secondary or post-secondary would have the same issues. And, as you admit, to your knowledge a basketball recruit never was refused admittance. But, that doesn't prove it didn't happen.

 

Absolutely, not. My mindset is that we are dealing with two different beasts that everyone for some reason wants to stuff in the same cage.

 

You can't say what is good for one is good for the other, either way.

 

But also, to say that we have two different beasts but yet they compete on the same level playing field is mistaken too.

 

Simply put what goes on in the urban schools is vastly different than the rural schools. And to say if the rural schools would just adapt what the urban schools do and it would make them more like the urban schools is inaccurate.

 

You go to the zoo and you don't see the Polar Bears in the same cage as the Gorillas. Both are great animals but we don't put them together. And yet in KHSAA, some get offended when it is pointed out that different beasts need their own cage.

 

 

As far as blaming of the teachers, when the statement is made that the school district needs to do more to bring their district up to the level of others, then that is implying the teachers are not doing enough.