3a fan rankings for fun.

[Watusi]

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Excellent post. The point that I was trying to make to Oldbird about Sheldon Clark is that they were a young team and gave Bell County a pretty good playoff game on the road. Their returning players, plus their drop to 2A this season should have placed them a little higher in the BGP preseason rankings.

 

But even if you feel SC should have had a higher preseason ranking, that does nothing to help your argument that the BGP rankings are biased towards NKY teams and against EKY teams.

 

SC started out the preseason with a #6 ranking, and by your logic I can agree that they may have warranted a slightly higher ranking. BUT out of the five teams ahead of them, 4 were EKY teams (Breathitt, Russell, Belfry, P'burg) and one was west of Louisville (O'Cath). And the only NKY team in their class (Lloyd) wasn't even ranked.

 

So if the voters missed the boat on SC it definitely was not because of any regional bias. And based on their early play, they were ranked too high, much like the majority of the other EKY teams in their class.

[Oldbird]

Originally posted by Watusi

But even if you feel SC should have had a higher preseason ranking, that does nothing to help your argument that the BGP rankings are biased towards NKY teams and against EKY teams.

 

SC started out the preseason with a #6 ranking, and by your logic I can agree that they may have warranted a slightly higher ranking. BUT out of the five teams ahead of them, 4 were EKY teams (Breathitt, Russell, Belfry, P'burg) and one was west of Louisville (O'Cath). And the only NKY team in their class (Lloyd) wasn't even ranked.

 

So if the voters missed the boat on SC it definitely was not because of any regional bias. And based on their early play, they were ranked too high, much like the majority of the other EKY teams in their class.

 

Exactly Watusi.

[Booge]

Originally posted by Watusi

But even if you feel SC should have had a higher preseason ranking, that does nothing to help your argument that the BGP rankings are biased towards NKY teams and against EKY teams.

 

SC started out the preseason with a #6 ranking, and by your logic I can agree that they may have warranted a slightly higher ranking. BUT out of the five teams ahead of them, 4 were EKY teams (Breathitt, Russell, Belfry, P'burg) and one was west of Louisville (O'Cath). And the only NKY team in their class (Lloyd) wasn't even ranked.

 

So if the voters missed the boat on SC it definitely was not because of any regional bias. And based on their early play, they were ranked too high, much like the majority of the other EKY teams in their class.

 

Since no one else has answed my question, maybe you can take a stab Watusi...like a brainteaser...If the AP poll has one NKY team ranked right where BGP has them (Highlands)...and ALL THE OTHER NKy teams ranked MUCH LOWER than BGP...which is true...

 

1.) BGP has a positive NKy bias...

2.) AP has a negative NKy bias...

3.) AP pollsters are stupid and BY SOME HUGE COINCIDENCE err to the detriment of NKy teams EVERY SINGLE TIME...

 

Which is it?

[HoosierEagle]

Originally posted by Watusi

But even if you feel SC should have had a higher preseason ranking, that does nothing to help your argument that the BGP rankings are biased towards NKY teams and against EKY teams.

 

SC started out the preseason with a #6 ranking, and by your logic I can agree that they may have warranted a slightly higher ranking. BUT out of the five teams ahead of them, 4 were EKY teams (Breathitt, Russell, Belfry, P'burg) and one was west of Louisville (O'Cath). And the only NKY team in their class (Lloyd) wasn't even ranked.

 

So if the voters missed the boat on SC it definitely was not because of any regional bias. And based on their early play, they were ranked too high, much like the majority of the other EKY teams in their class.

Watusi,

 

Excellent point about Sheldon Clark. I thought they warranted a top 3 preseason rank, but you are correct in pointing out that they were not ranked lower because of a NKY bias. I think we need to have the benefit of a little more hindsight to understand how bad the Cards loss to Lawrence County was, and how unimpressive the win over Bourbon was. I suspect that Lawrence County will make a lot of good teams look pretty bad this season.

 

At the risk of locking up the Dead Horse Award (if the nag is not already mine), I have summarized the BGP rankings' favorable treatment of the NKY teams below. I made the comparison because it has always seemed to me that there has been a northern Kentucky "flavor" to the rankings.

 

Here are the totals for all the NKY teams in BGP, with the rank differential for each:

 

Class A

 

Beechwood +1

Covington Holy Cross +3

Bellvue +11

 

Class AA

Lloyd +10

 

Class AAA

Highlands SAME

Covington Catholic +4

 

By my count, BGP has 5 out of 6 teams ranked higher than the AP, and one team ranked the same. More telling, IMO, is the fact that the 6 NKY teams are ranked 29 places higher on BGP than in the AP polls, a whopping average of nearly 5 places per team.

 

I thought the difference was interesting. Maybe the difference is, as Oldbird asserted, simply due to the fact that the AP voters don't know good football teams when they see them. If that is the reason for the difference, the NKY teams seem to be getting badly shortchanged by the AP.

[Oxnard]

I am going to presume, Hoosier Eagle, that your exclusion of the 4A ranking from this discussion means that there is at least one BGP poll which (at least at this point) does NOT show show a NKY bias over EKY teams. If your acquisation of bias is true, why do we have this one inconsistency?

[Log Mountain Boy]

I just dont see how u could possibly put CovCath, LexCath, and Highlands all ahead of Bell and Rock. I mean dont we put Boyle # 1 til they get beat? I think Rock deserves to be ranked ahead of all 3 teams from the north til they are beat. And Bell should atleast be ahead of LexCath. Thats just my opinion tho.

And guys I think Rock could have played Highlands 10 times and drilled them 10 times last year. Rock was that good. And Boyle was that good to beat them.

 

Guys Sheldon Clark had a nice team last year. They played Bell VERY HARD. Someone had said they should have beat Bell in an earlier thread so I got a little defensive. My bad.

[Booge]

Originally posted by Oxnard

I am going to presume, Hoosier Eagle, that your exclusion of the 4A ranking from this discussion means that there is at least one BGP poll which (at least at this point) does NOT show show a NKY bias over EKY teams. If your acquisation of bias is true, why do we have this one inconsistency?

 

This should be obvious...neither area has anyone in the 4A top ten...and only Dixie Heights has a shot...there are only a handful of 4A teams in both areas combined...

[lcdawg4life]

rankings are just ranking to me

they dont really mean anything - they are just something for people to argue over or discuss - i mean ive enjoyed watching people on here talk about them but in the end its just that you need to keep winning and executing and you will earn your spot on anyones ranking or top 10.

[HoosierEagle]

Originally posted by Oxnard

I am going to presume, Hoosier Eagle, that your exclusion of the 4A ranking from this discussion means that there is at least one BGP poll which (at least at this point) does NOT show show a NKY bias over EKY teams. If your acquisation of bias is true, why do we have this one inconsistency?

My exclusion of 4A in the comparison is because neither EKY or NKY is currently represented in the AP poll. There were no 4A teams to list, so I didn't list any. If you see that as an inconsistency, then run with it. At no time have I ever accused the BGP voters of consciously tilting the rankings in favor of the NKY teams. I know how many hours of work it takes to put together the BGP Rankings, and I enjoy discussing the results.

[Oxnard]

Is Madison Central not considered a "fringe - EKY" team? They are #8 in the BGP 4A poll (ahead of unranked Dixie Heights, Connor, Ryle). Is this a reverse bias?

 

Also recheck your AP Poll and you WILL find that Madison Central is #10, this week. :argue:

[HoosierEagle]

Originally posted by Oxnard

Is Madison Central not considered a "fringe - EKY" team? They are #8 in the BGP 4A poll (ahead of unranked Dixie Heights, Connor, Ryle). Is this a reverse bias?

 

Also recheck your AP Poll and you WILL find that Madison Central is #10, this week. :argue:

You can consider Madison Central an eastern Kentucky team if you want, but I don't think you will find many people who will agree with you.

 

On the other hand, if Richmond is far enough "east" for Madison Central to be considered an eastern Kentucky team, then if we move the dividing line just a few miles west, we could claim most of those good NKY teams as eastern Kentucky teams as well.

[Oxnard]

I guess Madison Central is just a suregate member of the Mountain Region, who annually plays against the Lexington 4A Region each year. If they finally keep the Mountain Region from being swept by the Lexington 4A teams in the playoffs, I'm SURE you will then accept them like your long lost brother.

[Watusi]

Originally posted by Mtnfootballfan

Since no one else has answed my question, maybe you can take a stab Watusi...like a brainteaser...If the AP poll has one NKY team ranked right where BGP has them (Highlands)...and ALL THE OTHER NKy teams ranked MUCH LOWER than BGP...which is true...

 

1.) BGP has a positive NKy bias...

2.) AP has a negative NKy bias...

3.) AP pollsters are stupid and BY SOME HUGE COINCIDENCE err to the detriment of NKy teams EVERY SINGLE TIME...

 

Which is it?

 

Based on your combative attitude, I doubt you want me to give you my opinion, you are not interested in any one else opinion. In spite of that, I'm going to attempt to answer your question.

 

I'd have to know who voted on the AP poll and where they were from to give you an honest answer. Without those facts, I could hardly speak as to the existence or non-existence of any so called bias on the part of the AP. But I can tell you that I don't agree with any of your answers.

 

I can rule out number one, actually I already did that earlier.

 

I can rule out number two because I feel that you cannot assign a label of bias on the AP poll in any direction. IMO, it's because the AP voters all vote singularly. Meaning they do not have any collusion. Without the luxury of a forum where they can all discuss the teams involved and the relative pros and cons of each, they cannot affect a poll-wide bias. Because of this, they AP voters are stuck with voting honestly on the teams they have seen and relying on scores and stats to tell them about the teams they haven't seen. Scores and stats are good things and we can gain a lot from them. But they do not tell you the whole story. Some bias could exist on a voter by voter basis whereas each voter is a "homer" and votes for the local team, thereby taking away any validity the poll might have. But I cannot hang my hat on that theory without knowing who the voters are and where they are from and seeing each voters ballots.

 

I can rule out number three because of my answer to number two, and I don't think all AP voters are stupid. As to the Huge Coincidence, I know you were being facetious, but you may be on to something. I suspect, though, it would have something to do with the "homer" theory and the fact that the AP poll has few voting members from the NKY region.

[wildcatjack]

Russell was unranked in last year's preseason rankings, and remain so for several weeks into last season. I was nearly alone in calling for Russell to be ranked after they nearly beat Ashland Blazer on the road. I may be mistaken, but I don't think the Red Devils cracked the top 10 until after they beat Mason County the first time, and then they barely broke in. I think after losing to a tough Portsmouth West team at home, they may have actually dropped.

 

As the season wears on, it becomes much easier to separate the wheat from the chaf. The fact that Russell was ranked where they deserved by the end of the year does nothing to dispel the perception that the early rankings seem to contain some regional bias.

 

Hoosier Eagle,

I agree that Russell was a little underranked early in the season, however, after the win against Mason, they moved from just out of the top 10 to #5, behind 1)breathitt, 2)Larue3)OCath4)Mason.

I wouldn't call that barely breaking in..Should they have been higher?Possibly, I think you could make a good point for the top 3 being ahead of them at that time and even Mason..even though they won a close game with them, many felt the Mason win over Rockcastle was still more impressive than the loss Russell had to Ashland..i was one of them, but, rest assured, they weren't taken lightly after that point..Also, even after the loss to Portsmouth, they remained in the #5 slot..Lloyd hovered in the #6 to #8 range most of the year, with #5 being there highest ytd ranking and that was prior to the Russell/Mason game..i don't see where theres any validity to a NKY bias as far as Russell was concerned..

[colonel-fan]

This thread alone was worth my admission price. Good job all around guys! :thumb: