HE, you are right about trusting the scrimmage results. I don't ever put too much stock on a reported score from a scrimmage because everyone approaches them differently. I did see the Pburg/Bourbon scrimmage, though, and I came away thinking that Bourbon was not a very good football team, especially on defense. And on SC, I saw the Lawrence Co game too and it was more than just Lawrence over powering them. But I thought SC got a lot of love from BGP in the preseason and the week 1 polls. And they deserved to drop in the week 2 poll.

 

And no comment from me on the Pond Creek mystique. :lol:

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

I feel your pain.:lol: It is hard to argue with the 1A rankings, because the NKY 1A teams, along with Danville and Mayfield usually play at another level than the rest of the state. Beyond those teams, there is a lot of parity around the state, and most 1A teams do not travel very far to play. That makes it difficult to know what to do with a (non-Mayfield) WKY 1A team and an EKY team having similar records. I sympathize with anybody trying to rank the 6-10 1A teams.

 

These are some of the "intangibles" that go in favor of NKy teams vs. EKy teams. westsider said he couldn't put Pikeville in Class A top 10 because they were 0-2. But they played up in class and lost two two pretty good teams. So Bellevue gets stuck in there after going 4-6 last year and beating 2 weak teams this year. But the logic is reversed when Cov Cath loses plays up loses their first two games and immediately is rewarded with a higher ranking than all the EKy teams in their class...

 

If you argue that the teams CC lost to are better than the teams Pikeville lost to: 1.) granted. and 2.) you are missing my whole point.

Alot of underestimating Bellvue. I guarntee you if they were in another district they would be a top 2 team. They return almost everybody from last year's squad. They have a new coach who has put a new offensive scheme into to finally fit with what talent they have on the field. Wow ........... to bad Bellvue has Holy Cross,Beechwood and New Cath all in their district.

Originally posted by Mtnfootballfan

These are some of the "intangibles" that go in favor of NKy teams vs. EKy teams. westsider said he couldn't put Pikeville in Class A top 10 because they were 0-2. But they played up in class and lost two two pretty good teams. So Bellevue gets stuck in there after going 4-6 last year and beating 2 weak teams this year. But the logic is reversed when Cov Cath loses plays up loses their first two games and immediately is rewarded with a higher ranking than all the EKy teams in their class...

 

If you argue that the teams CC lost to are better than the teams Pikeville lost to: 1.) granted. and 2.) you are missing my whole point.

 

Mtnfootballfan, I didn't say Pikeville's 0-2 record was what kept me from voting for them ... it was their less-than-inspiring performance so far. I've seen Prestonsburg play ... and I wasn't impressed. And by all accounts, your Panthers were thoroughly thumped by Lawrence.

 

I'll say this, too ... I've had a couple of knowledgable football fans in the east tell me that mountain Class A ball (and football in general) is as weak as it's been in a while. I tend to take viewpoints like that into account ... you, on the other hand, don't seem to value anyone's opinion but your own ... unless, of course, they agree with you.

 

Hey, the season is only two weeks old ... and it's hard to get a handle on some teams this early. Things could easily be shook up this week.

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

If anything, last season's results suggested that Rockcastle might have emerged from a tougher region than anybody understood going into last season. I remember noting in the middle of last season that Covington Catholic had proven that they could take a beating, but did they actually upset anybody last season?

 

Do we rank teams base on wins and losses or how good they are? If your asking who did they actually beat rather than how did they do against top competition then you care more about wins and losses. Plus, that is probably why you like the AP which tends to like wins and losses more than we do.

 

Cov. Cath played Lex. Cath to a 2 point game at Lex. Cath. The same Lex. Cath. team beat Danville by 5 (a feat which evenutal state champ Boyle couldn't do) and lost to eventual state 4A runner up Male by 14. Does that tell you anything? Does it tell you as least as much as Lawrence County's 2 td win over Prestonburg? How about as much as as Lawrence Count's 2 td win over 6-5 Leslie County? Trinity hasn't won a game, but I feel confident they are a good team. Cov. Cath had a 500 season, but I feel confident that they were a good team.

 

Your entire argument that EKY teams didn't get the love they deserved last year is built on the Highlands/Rockcastle game, which would be easier to buy into had Rockcastle not also killed Bell and Boyd in the two weeks prior to the Highlands game.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

As for Lloyd, I don't think many Jugs fans expected the season to end on the short end of a blowout loss (49-21) against a team that would fall to Russell twice.

 

I also remember some of my NKY friends downplaying Russell's tough losses to Ashland and Portsmouth West, as well as its first win over Mason County, before belatedly moving them near the top of the 2A rankings.

 

Maybe the Juggs fans didn't think their season would end in a lopsided loss to Mason, but many of the rest of us did.

 

As far as Russell, there were many of us who knew Russell had a great team last year. However, I will admit that I was one of those that thought Mason would win the second game. Mason also had a very good team and the games were close. How is that not giving Russell any love?

 

I don't know for sure, but I would guess that Russell was ranked virtually the entire year in our poll.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Another thing that I remember is that a young Sheldon Clark team battled Bell County down to the wire on the road before losing 29-21 and finishing 7-3.

 

I remember that Sheldon Clark's other losses were a double-overtime setback to a then-healthy Lawrence County team, and a loss at Boyd County in a game that the Card's starting QB played with a fracture most of the game. With the core of that SC team returning for its senior season, I could not help noticing how little value BGP voters placed on the Lawrence County Bulldogs 31-0 win over them last week.

 

Sheldon Clark and Lawrence County may turn out to be huge disappointments this season. However, headed into this season there was ample reason to believe that both would contend for state titles this year.

 

There was nothing on Lawrence County's resume last year that you make someone immediately sit up and take notice that they would be contenders this year. They went 7-3 against a very soft schedule.

 

As far as Sheldon Clark, maybe they should have been considered higher. The win over Ashland and the close losses to Lawrence and Bell suggest that if they returned a solid core of talent and with the drop to a weaker 2A then they could possibly contend. However, I don't follow 2A very closely and I don't participate in the 2A rankings.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

The bar just seems to be set a little higher for EKY teams to enter the top echelon of the rankings than it is for NKY teams such as Highlands, CC, and Lloyd.

 

Actually you do have something right. Well sort of. Polls like the AP do vote you based on name recognition. In 2001, Highlands was ranked number 1 simply because they had won 3 straight. However, the BGP poll does not do that. This year we started Paducah Tilghman off in the number one spot, despite the fact that Boyle returned their core and would be solid. Why? We thought PT would be better.

 

Watusi gave you the stats. Those of us who live in NKY tend to be harder on our teams than people from other parts of the state. We tend to set the bar for goals that actually mean something rather than skewing a poll to make our teams look better in preseason/midseason polls.

 

The majority of the people who complain about polls support teams that they think are better than they actually are.

i could be totally wrong on this so ob or guru correct if i am but i would almost gurantee our voters here on bgps see a lot more of the actual teams and games played in person and with the forum some of the ones u dont see u can get info on more than likely by some reliable sources on here that did see them ,so yes i would this poll is more acurate than any other.except for the fact that u cant get the #1 right and put mason co in there j/k. :D

Thanks mhigh.

 

The one think I know for sure is that we put the teams in the right classes. Too bad the same can't be said for other polls.

Covington HC is ranked so high because they have manhandled 2 4a schools period. People can argue the fact they are not quality 4a schools. But they still are larger schools and more established programs than HC is. Last year HC was 7-5 and had a playoff victory in only its 4th year of exestince. Give HC time and they will fully prove they will year in and year out be competive and field good teams on the "A" level as they do in pretty much every other sport at their school male or female. It was only a matter of time until HC started getting talk with the Big Boys in A.

Sheldon Clark's game with Bell wasnt as close really. It was 28 to 7 starting the 4th qtr. A fumble and a quick score made the game look closer in the end.

 

I think Bell will make it back to the final 4 this year. After going almost every year in the 90s Dudley has them returning to prominence. They will have some stiff competition in their region with Rock (still the favorite), Mason (explosive offense), Lawrence (always dangerous) just to name a few.

I do think the east region winner will beat the north region and make it to the carpet.

Do we rank teams base on wins and losses or how good they are? If your asking who did they actually beat rather than how did they do against top competition then you care more about wins and losses. Plus, that is probably why you like the AP which tends to like wins and losses more than we do.

 

Oldbird,

 

Your response does not accurately reflect my posts at all. Let me clarify for you. First, wins and losses are not more important strength of schedule. You raised the subject of CovCath's games against Dixie and DeSales, not me. CovCath was dominated in both cases. I don't think getting pummelled by superior teams necessarily means that the loser has a stellar team. Do you?

 

Next, when you say that "that is probably why you like the AP..." you are attempting to attribute a sentiment to me that I don't hold. If you want to reread my posts carefully, you will see nothing in them that is complimentary about the AP's football polls. In case you don't get that after another read, then please rest assured, given the choice between the BGP ranking and the AP poll, I would take the BGP poll every time. That does not mean that there is no regional bias in the BGP rankings, or that the process cannot be improved.

 

Cov. Cath played Lex. Cath to a 2 point game at Lex. Cath. The same Lex. Cath. team beat Danville by 5 (a feat which evenutal state champ Boyle couldn't do) and lost to eventual state 4A runner up Male by 14. Does that tell you anything? Does it tell you as least as much as Lawrence County's 2 td win over Prestonburg? How about as much as as Lawrence Count's 2 td win over 6-5 Leslie County? Trinity hasn't won a game, but I feel confident they are a good team. Cov. Cath had a 500 season, but I feel confident that they were a good team.

 

You apparently missed the fact that Lawrence County played most of the season saddled with serious injuries to key players. Evidently you also don't believe that having talented players like Short and Storts sit out most of last season, while some inexperienced younger players were pressed into service as starters, should have a positive impact on this season's team. I disagree.

 

Had Lawrence County been healthy last season, I would agree that a 7-3 record was pretty unimpressive. Had the Bulldogs suffered heavy graduation losses after last season, I would agree that they did not deserve to be ranked in this year's preseason rankings. Instead, Lawrence County is returning a much deeper and experienced team than would have been the case had Short, Stort, and the other starters been healthy for a full season. I don't think that factor was given sufficient weight in your preseason rankings.

 

Your entire argument that EKY teams didn't get the love they deserved last year is built on the Highlands/Rockcastle game, which would be easier to buy into had Rockcastle not also killed Bell and Boyd in the two weeks prior to the Highlands game.

 

Sorry, but I don't see how you could draw this conclusion. I wasted my time writing pages if my entire argument is summarized in the quote above. Maybe you just skimmed over the other points that I made.

 

 

 

Maybe the Juggs fans didn't think their season would end in a lopsided loss to Mason, but many of the rest of us did.

 

As far as Russell, there were many of us who knew Russell had a great team last year. However, I will admit that I was one of those that thought Mason would win the second game. Mason also had a very good team and the games were close. How is that not giving Russell any love?

 

I don't know for sure, but I would guess that Russell was ranked virtually the entire year in our poll.

 

Russell was unranked in last year's preseason rankings, and remain so for several weeks into last season. I was nearly alone in calling for Russell to be ranked after they nearly beat Ashland Blazer on the road. I may be mistaken, but I don't think the Red Devils cracked the top 10 until after they beat Mason County the first time, and then they barely broke in. I think after losing to a tough Portsmouth West team at home, they may have actually dropped.

 

As the season wears on, it becomes much easier to separate the wheat from the chaf. The fact that Russell was ranked where they deserved by the end of the year does nothing to dispel the perception that the early rankings seem to contain some regional bias.

 

There was nothing on Lawrence County's resume last year that you make someone immediately sit up and take notice that they would be contenders this year. They went 7-3 against a very soft schedule.

 

See notes above. The signs were there, and had the Bulldogs had Boone County addresses, they would have been touted as a contender. I am not saying that the Bulldogs will win a state title this season, but if they go deep in the playoffs this season, it should not come as a shock either.

 

As far as Sheldon Clark, maybe they should have been considered higher. The win over Ashland and the close losses to Lawrence and Bell suggest that if they returned a solid core of talent and with the drop to a weaker 2A then they could possibly contend. However, I don't follow 2A very closely and I don't participate in the 2A rankings.

Thank you for at least partially conceding one point to me. The Cards may not have the team speed to go all the way, but I still expect them to be a top contender at the end of the season. They are playing a pretty decent schedule, so they may enter the playoffs with a worse record than last season, but they should be a better team by year's end.

 

The majority of the people who complain about polls support teams that they think are better than they actually are.

I don't really support a team (in Kentucky), at least not enough to qualify as anybody's fan. I was dissatisfied with my sons' experience at Johnson Central, and my youngest son is playing for a 4A team in central Indiana this season. I would like to see the Golden Eagles turn things around for the kids' sake, but I doubt that I will ever spend money on a ticket to watch another of their games. So, if you have me pegged as a rabid Bulldog or SC Cardinal fan, you are very mistaken. I just like to see teams and players get all the recognition they deserve.

 

I believe that being in the BGP Top 10 during the season is an honor, and I was just disappointed to see a couple of very deserving teams (IMO) from eastern Kentucky left out at the onset of the season. I have no hidden agenda, although I am sure that I have my share of personal biases. I would not be human if I didn't.

Originally posted by Log Mountain Boy

Sheldon Clark's game with Bell wasnt as close really. It was 28 to 7 starting the 4th qtr. A fumble and a quick score made the game look closer in the end.

 

I think Bell will make it back to the final 4 this year. After going almost every year in the 90s Dudley has them returning to prominence. They will have some stiff competition in their region with Rock (still the favorite), Mason (explosive offense), Lawrence (always dangerous) just to name a few.

I do think the east region winner will beat the north region and make it to the carpet.

Do you recall the halftime score? My recollection is that Sheldon Clark remained within striking distance for much of the game before being worn down by a very physical Bell County team.

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Your response does not accurately reflect my posts at all. Let me clarify for you. First, wins and losses are not more important strength of schedule. You raised the subject of CovCath's games against Dixie and DeSales, not me. CovCath was dominated in both cases. I don't think getting pummelled by superior teams necessarily means that the loser has a stellar team. Do you?

 

You asked the question whether Cov. Cath actually upset anybody. I pointed out to you that even in defeat they showed they were quality. I don't know how that didn't accurately reflect what you posted.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Next, when you say that "that is probably why you like the AP..." you are attempting to attribute a sentiment to me that I don't hold. If you want to reread my posts carefully, you will see nothing in them that is complimentary about the AP's football polls. In case you don't get that after another read, then please rest assured, given the choice between the BGP ranking and the AP poll, I would take the BGP poll every time. That does not mean that there is no regional bias in the BGP rankings, or that the process cannot be improved.

 

You held up the AP poll as a measuring stick to our poll. I typically don't use things as benchmarks that I don't believe to be reliable. You held up the AP poll for us to compare ourselves to to show "regional bias". If the AP poll isn't reliable then how can it point out anything to us?

 

I thought it was very funny that the day you challenge us to compare ourselves to the AP they publish the Adair County blunder.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

You apparently missed the fact that Lawrence County played most of the season saddled with serious injuries to key players. Evidently you also don't believe that having talented players like Short and Storts sit out most of last season, while some inexperienced younger players were pressed into service as starters, should have a positive impact on this season's team. I disagree.

 

Had Lawrence County been healthy last season, I would agree that a 7-3 record was pretty unimpressive. Had the Bulldogs suffered heavy graduation losses after last season, I would agree that they did not deserve to be ranked in this year's preseason rankings. Instead, Lawrence County is returning a much deeper and experienced team than would have been the case had Short, Stort, and the other starters been healthy for a full season. I don't think that factor was given sufficient weight in your preseason rankings.

 

No I didn't miss that fact at all. In fact I followed it pretty closely last year.

 

To start the season last year Lawrence posted unimpressive wins against P-burg and Leslie County. This was when Lawrence was healthy. Sorry top 10 3A teams look more impressive against 2A teams, even above average 2A teams like P-burg than this. Even if they returned everybody they were not impressive last year.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Sorry, but I don't see how you could draw this conclusion. I wasted my time writing pages if my entire argument is summarized in the quote above. Maybe you just skimmed over the other points that I made.

 

No I read them in detail. These were your words:

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Lexington Catholic fell to a Highlands team that in turn was hammered by Rockcastle. If anything, last season's results suggested that Rockcastle might have emerged from a tougher region than anybody understood going into last season.

 

What other results would suggest that this region was thougher than anybody understood? Yes, you did go into page after page with your argument, however, detailing LC's overtime victory over Sheldon Clark does little to convince me of how either team compares with the elite 3A teams.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Russell was unranked in last year's preseason rankings, and remain so for several weeks into last season. I was nearly alone in calling for Russell to be ranked after they nearly beat Ashland Blazer on the road. I may be mistaken, but I don't think the Red Devils cracked the top 10 until after they beat Mason County the first time, and then they barely broke in. I think after losing to a tough Portsmouth West team at home, they may have actually dropped.

 

As the season wears on, it becomes much easier to separate the wheat from the chaf. The fact that Russell was ranked where they deserved by the end of the year does nothing to dispel the perception that the early rankings seem to contain some regional bias.

 

It does nothing to prove it either. Let's assume everything you say is true, all it says is that Russell was incorrectly ranked. Where does NKY bias factor in? Because we had Lloyd ranked? Maybe Llloyd wasn't top 3 in the state with Breathitt, Mason and Russell, but I saw Lloyd last year, they had a very good team and were without a doubt top 10 material. There was no bias.

 

Remember just because you are paranoid doesn't mean that everyone isn't really out to get you.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

I just like to see teams and players get all the recognition they deserve.

 

They always do. By the end of the season every team knows exactly how good they were and get all the recognition they deserve.

 

However, like I said before the ones who scream loudest about pre-season/mid-season polls are typically people who think there team is better than it is. The exceptions to this rule are few.

 

Seasons where Lawrence County has had good teams they have never gone unnoticed in the polls.

 

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

I am sure that I have my share of personal biases. I would not be human if I didn't.

 

We are all human, but as we have stated over a over, the NKY folk on the panel are harder (not eaiser) on NKY teams. So if my bias enters into my decisions at all, it isn't at all like you think.

That's gotta be a record for most quotes replied to at once.

 

98

Originally posted by 98NCCalum

That's gotta be a record for most quotes replied to at once.

 

98

 

Thank you, thank you. :banana:

Even if the AP poll is unreliable (which it isn't), you would still think it would be unreliable both directions with NKy teams, that is they would overrate some of them and underrate others. For the AP IN EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE to have NKy teams rated equal to (Highlands) or MUCH LOWER LOWER THAN BGP (all other NKy teams) means that either AP has a negative bias toward NKy teams or BGP has a positive bias toward NKy teams, or it is all just a HUGE coincidence. Which do you believe??? It's clear to me which it is...