Originally posted by Oxnard

I guess Madison Central is just a suregate member of the Mountain Region, who annually plays against the Lexington 4A Region each year. If they finally keep the Mountain Region from being swept by the Lexington 4A teams in the playoffs, I'm SURE you will then accept them like your long lost brother.

If you can convince a majority of the good people of Richmond and Madison County that they live in eastern Kentucky, then I will hop on your bandwagon, Oxnard. I guess where you draw that elusive boundary that separates eastern Kentucky from central Kentucky depends on how badly you want to make a point (you do seem pretty desperate to make your point).

 

No offense to Madison Countians, but I just have a hard time thinking of them as mountain folk. I am surprised that you have not mentioned that Richmond is home to Eastern Kentucky University. Surely politicians would not have built a university for eastern Kentuckians and located it in central Kentucky. Would they?:lol:

 

BTW, wouldn't designating Ft. Thomas as a part of eastern Kentucky make your point even better? They have hills (i.e., small mountains), the school is located almost as far east as Madison Central, and the people of Ft. Thomas were so proud of their mountains that they named their school "Highlands." Besides, giving up Highlands to eastern Kentucky would still leave northern Kentucky with plenty of quality high school football teams.

Originally posted by Watusi

I can rule out number three because of my answer to number two, and I don't think all AP voters are stupid. As to the Huge Coincidence, I know you were being facetious, but you may be on to something. I suspect, though, it would have something to do with the "homer" theory and the fact that the AP poll has few voting members from the NKY region.

 

This is the million dollar question. How many AP voters are from NKY and do they vote every week?

 

You may find that the AP Poll has an anti-NKY bias by default.

 

Also, wildcatjack, I don't think your Russell example shows there was a bias (because if so we wouldn't have them ranked as high as we do this year and some of the powers that be at Russell have complained to me that they are ranked too high this year) I think it shows we missed on Russell. But I can tell you this, we won't miss them anymore.:thumb:

Although I don't vote in either (and maybe the guru or Watusi can clarify this), I do believe the same number of people vote in the BGP Poll EVERY week. If there's 15 voters, I'm sure they get 15 completed polls each week.

 

The AP is hit or miss. If your media outlet is an AP member, you're allowed to vote. However, count the total number of first place votes each week and you'll see that number fluctuate between 9-15 every week. That means as many as six people don't bother to complete their AP voting each week....where are these people from? That would skewer the voting from week to week if they are all from the same area

Originally posted by Mtnfootballfan

These are some of the "intangibles" that go in favor of NKy teams vs. EKy teams. westsider said he couldn't put Pikeville in Class A top 10 because they were 0-2. But they played up in class and lost two two pretty good teams. So Bellevue gets stuck in there after going 4-6 last year and beating 2 weak teams this year. But the logic is reversed when Cov Cath loses plays up loses their first two games and immediately is rewarded with a higher ranking than all the EKy teams in their class...

 

If you argue that the teams CC lost to are better than the teams Pikeville lost to: 1.) granted. and 2.) you are missing my whole point.

 

You know Mtnfootball, for someone who states that this argument is not about Pikeville, every argument you make i nthis thread is about Single A!! This is a 3a thread. Pikeville is what? Oh yeah, 1A. And most of your posts are about Bellevue, who is 9 or 10 , where the Panthers could be if they were not there. Interesting.

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

Compare the current AP poll to the current BGP poll. Mark the NKY teams. For each place that BGP has a NKY team ranked higher than AP, award a point. For each place that an NKY team that is ranked lower, award a negative point. (For some BGP teams, you will need to extend the AP rankings well beyond a top 10. For example, BGP has Lloyd ranked 6 in AA, but the AP has them pegged at 19, so you would award Lloyd a +13.

 

After going through all of the teams listed in all but 4A rankings (NKY is not represented), count the number of NKY teams ranked higher in the BGP poll than AP, the ones ranked the same, and the teams ranked lower.

 

By using this system...

 

Biggest differences with BGP ranking higher

 

+ 11 Bellevue (A) (NKY)

+ 11 Fort Knox (A) (CKY)

+ 10 Lloyd (AA) (NKY)

+ 7 Larue County (AA) (CKY)

+ 5 Monroe County (AA) (CKY)

+4 CovCath (AAA) (NKY)

+ 3 Sheldon Clark (AA) (EKY)

+ 3 Cov Holy Cross (A) (NKY)

+2 Hopkinsville (AAA) (WKY)

 

Biggest differences with AP ranking higher

 

+ 3 Rockcastle County (AAA) (EKY)

+ 3 Bell County (AAA) (EKY)

+ 1 Mayfield (A) (WKY)

+ 1 Somerset (A) (EKY)

+1 Bardstown (A) (CKY)

+ 1 Corbin (AA) (EKY)

+ 1 Breathitt County (AA) (EKY)

 

 

Three of the teams with the biggest 'BGP bias' when compared to the AP Poll are from Central Kentucky -- Fort Knox, Larue County, and Monroe County

 

One other thing...Both polls have the same 3A teams ranked in the top ten except in a different order

 

In 2A, Fort Campbell, Glasgow, and Webster County all appear in the AP Top Ten -- all from western Kentucky. In BGP, the different teams are Lloyd (NKY), Sheldon Clark (EKY), and Larue County (CKY)

 

In 1A, Murray (WKY) and Harrodsburg (CKY) are the different teams in the AP Poll, while Fort Knox (CKY) and Bellevue (NKY) are the different teams in the BGP Poll.

 

Looking at it from this angle, the AP includes four western Kentucky teams and one from CKY that are different from BGP.

 

BGP teams different from the AP Top ten come from NKY (2), CKY (2), and EKY (1).

 

Look at it from the other perspective and one would deduce that the AP has a bias in favor of teams from western and central Kentucky

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

If you can convince a majority of the good people of Richmond and Madison County that they live in eastern Kentucky, then I will hop on your bandwagon, Oxnard. I guess where you draw that elusive boundary that separates eastern Kentucky from central Kentucky depends on how badly you want to make a point (you do seem pretty desperate to make your point).

 

No offense to Madison Countians, but I just have a hard time thinking of them as mountain folk. I am surprised that you have not mentioned that Richmond is home to Eastern Kentucky University. Surely politicians would not have built a university for eastern Kentuckians and located it in central Kentucky. Would they?:lol:

 

BTW, wouldn't designating Ft. Thomas as a part of eastern Kentucky make your point even better? They have hills (i.e., small mountains), the school is located almost as far east as Madison Central, and the people of Ft. Thomas were so proud of their mountains that they named their school "Highlands." Besides, giving up Highlands to eastern Kentucky would still leave northern Kentucky with plenty of quality high school football teams.

 

 

 

since u guys are talking about locations here the true million dollare ? wheres mason at in ky what part because you wont find anybody in this county tell anything but northern ky since we are on the river as far as can go north ,but we never mention in the nky top 10s or anything maybe somebody can answer this or are we just loaners to ourself. :D

westsider Rock beating Highlands was a 39 point fluke. You have to be joking. I dont care who you beat, if you beat someone by 39 points you were definately the better of the two teams. I dont think i can ever recall a 39 point fluke.

Originally posted by The Scribe

Biggest differences with AP ranking higher

 

+ 3 Rockcastle County (AAA) (EKY)

+ 3 Bell County (AAA) (EKY)

+ 1 Mayfield (A) (WKY)

+ 1 Somerset (A) (EKY)

+1 Bardstown (A) (CKY)

+ 1 Corbin (AA) (EKY)

+ 1 Breathitt County (AA) (EKY)

 

Look at it from the other perspective and one would deduce that the AP has a bias in favor of teams from western and central Kentucky

 

Scribe, did you mean west and east, since 5 of the 7 teams that have higher AP rankings are in the east?

Originally posted by BMOC22

westsider Rock beating Highlands was a 39 point fluke. You have to be joking. I dont care who you beat, if you beat someone by 39 points you were definately the better of the two teams. I dont think i can ever recall a 39 point fluke.

 

Read a little further, BMOC22 ... I said I felt the 39-point margin was a fluke, not the fact that Rockcastle beat Highlands.

Originally posted by westsider

Scribe, did you mean west and east, since 5 of the 7 teams that have higher AP rankings are in the east?

 

In terms of where they rank the teams maybe, but in terms of including other teams, which is how this thread began I think when Lawrence County was omitted, the AP adds more teams from western and central Kentucky, while BGP includes a better balance of teams from different parts of the state

Originally posted by HoosierEagle

No offense to Madison Countians, but I just have a hard time thinking of them as mountain folk. I am surprised that you have not mentioned that Richmond is home to Eastern Kentucky University. Surely politicians would not have built a university for eastern Kentuckians and located it in central Kentucky. Would they?:lol:

 

Well, HoosierEagle, maybe they wanted to try and lure people out of the mountains ...

 

I always thought the school in Bowling Green should be called Southern Kentucky University. :lol:

Originally posted by The Scribe

By using this system...

 

Biggest differences with BGP ranking higher

 

+ 11 Bellevue (A) (NKY)

+ 11 Fort Knox (A) (CKY)

+ 10 Lloyd (AA) (NKY)

+ 7 Larue County (AA) (CKY)

+ 5 Monroe County (AA) (CKY)

+4 CovCath (AAA) (NKY)

+ 3 Sheldon Clark (AA) (EKY)

+ 3 Cov Holy Cross (A) (NKY)

+2 Hopkinsville (AAA) (WKY)

 

Biggest differences with AP ranking higher

 

+ 3 Rockcastle County (AAA) (EKY)

+ 3 Bell County (AAA) (EKY)

+ 1 Mayfield (A) (WKY)

+ 1 Somerset (A) (EKY)

+1 Bardstown (A) (CKY)

+ 1 Corbin (AA) (EKY)

+ 1 Breathitt County (AA) (EKY)

 

 

Three of the teams with the biggest 'BGP bias' when compared to the AP Poll are from Central Kentucky -- Fort Knox, Larue County, and Monroe County

 

One other thing...Both polls have the same 3A teams ranked in the top ten except in a different order

 

In 2A, Fort Campbell, Glasgow, and Webster County all appear in the AP Top Ten -- all from western Kentucky. In BGP, the different teams are Lloyd (NKY), Sheldon Clark (EKY), and Larue County (CKY)

 

In 1A, Murray (WKY) and Harrodsburg (CKY) are the different teams in the AP Poll, while Fort Knox (CKY) and Bellevue (NKY) are the different teams in the BGP Poll.

 

Looking at it from this angle, the AP includes four western Kentucky teams and one from CKY that are different from BGP.

 

BGP teams different from the AP Top ten come from NKY (2), CKY (2), and EKY (1).

 

Look at it from the other perspective and one would deduce that the AP has a bias in favor of teams from western and central Kentucky

 

Scribe,

 

As usual, you did a nice job analyzing and presenting the data. A couple of things that I don't think you addressed, however, is the sheer magnitude of the discrepancy between the two systems in the cases of both Lloyd and Bellvue, and the fact that BGP ranks all of the NKY teams at either the same rank (Highlands), or higher. By mid-season, I expect the BGP ranks and those in the AP to be very similar, but where differences remain, the BGP numbers will be better thought out and a more accurate predictor of future games.

 

It's in the rankings for the preseason and first few weeks of the season where I believe a northern Kentucky bias is apparent in the BGP rankings. However, although the bar is set at different heights for early season entry into the top 10, BGP does recognize deserving teams as they prove themselves on the field during the season, regardless of their geographic locations.

 

BTW, I have an alternate take on the following observation:

 

Three of the teams with the biggest 'BGP bias' when compared to the AP Poll are from Central Kentucky -- Fort Knox, Larue County, and Monroe County

 

Two of the three teams with the biggest 'BGP bias' when compared to the AP poll are from northern Kentucky, Lloyd and Bellvue. Furthermore, four of the nine teams with the biggest 'BGP bias' hail from northern Kentucky (vs. only 3 CKY teams).

 

Both statements are true, both describe the same set of numbers, and each characterizes the facts in a totally different light. Artists call it perspective and politicians describe it as putting a positive spin on the data. I don't think the data indicates more of a BGP central Kentucky bias at all, but I guess it all depends on the conclusion that one wants to reach.

HoosierEagle, let me suggest this ...

 

In the case of Bellevue and Lloyd, is it possible their relatively low standing in the AP poll is because of their relative anonymity? Everyone in the state knows about Highlands, CovCath and Beechwood, and some teams might get overshadowed.

 

Not as many people know about the likes of Lloyd and Bellevue, even though they've had some success in the past.

 

I suspect Holy Cross got some attention because they're a new kid on the block and they beat two 4A teams ... but you never seem to hear much about Lloyd and Bellevue, even when they're good.

Here is my rankings after putting a little thought into it.

 

1. Boyle Co. theyll be there til they r beaten. So it may be a while or it may be friday night.

2. Paducah Tighlman Prolly the most talented.

3. tie Rockastle Still gonna have a tuff defense.

3. tie Bell has potential to be very dangerous. And could return to the cartpet.

5. Hopkinsville Always tuff.

6. Highlands Seem to be the odds on favorite in the north.

7. Mason Move to 3A may be more difficult than people realize.

8. CovCath play a tuff schedule every year.

9. Bowling Green I here they are good.

10. tie LexCath

10. tie Lawrence Co.

No bias there ... :lol: