Vaught Strikes Again

[SilverShadow]

Only, and I do mean only, after a very extensive study to determine how much "dead weight" is already in educational budgets done by outside professionals, not teachers unions or state BOE. Only after those in education PROVE beyond any doubt that they are spending what they get efficiently and effectively, only after tenure programs that allow bad teachers to remain in the classroom (even one is one to many), only after major changes in the way schools and school systems currently do business would I support any type of tax increase.

 

Now I know from your posting history that you will procede to tell me how uneducated I am, how stupid I am and how unelightened I am. I know that you think that public schools can do nothing wrong and that any percieved problems within them are due to lack of funding. I used to work in a public school and I disagree, but go ahead and very condescendingly tell me why I'm wrong.

 

Your words speak more about you than anything I can add!

[BGGreen]

I don't think that a private school should be able to give ANY scholarships. Are you really telling me that scholarships are given on an academic basis? That is not competing. That is telling a child's family that you can go to a school that has the best facilities money can buy for free. Of course they are going to go. This is not college. It isn't about who can go into a familie's home and put up the best sale to obtain their student athletes.

 

I'm guessing however in your world, its fine for a public school to promote their school/athletic programs to private middle school kids, by using the argument that their offerings are "FREE"??

 

Regarding the "best facilities money can buy" argument, I'll use No. KY as an example, since you're undoubtably familiar with the facilities up here. Name me ONE private school facility, with the possible exception of CovCath's football field (note I said field not stadium) that is remotely even equal to, much less superior to multiple public school facilities. Virtually all the nicer gyms, football stadiums, soccer fields, etc. are at the public schools. You've got swimming pools, huge gyms, very nice football stadiums, etc. at many public venues. St, Henry probably has the nicest gym, and its surpassed by several publics including a couple middle school gyms!! Please prove me wrong on this--Where are the best facilities money can buy?????????

[All Tell]

Your words speak more about you than anything I can add!

And the same holds true for you.

[scooterbob]

Only, and I do mean only, after a very extensive study to determine how much "dead weight" is already in educational budgets done by outside professionals, not teachers unions or state BOE. Only after those in education PROVE beyond any doubt that they are spending what they get efficiently and effectively, only after tenure programs that allow bad teachers to remain in the classroom (even one is one to many), only after major changes in the way schools and school systems currently do business would I support any type of tax increase.

 

Now I know from your posting history that you will procede to tell me how uneducated I am, how stupid I am and how unelightened I am. I know that you think that public schools can do nothing wrong and that any percieved problems within them are due to lack of funding. I used to work in a public school and I disagree, but go ahead and very condescendingly tell me why I'm wrong.

 

All Tell makes some valid points. I see nothing wrong with making the public schools accountable and to require full disclosure in regard to how they spend the seemingly endless funding that they receive.

[RamblinMan]

All Tell makes some valid points. I see nothing wrong with making the public schools accountable and to require full disclosure in regard to how they spend the seemingly endless funding that they receive.

I am a School Board Member at a very small Independent school system...I can only wish we had "endless funding"...It is very hard for us to make ends meet, but somehow we do and do it well...Most independents that I know of are in the same boat, so not all of us have "endless funding", never had and never will...

[4chs]

I am a School Board Member at a very small Independent school system...I can only wish we had "endless funding"...It is very hard for us to make ends meet, but somehow we do and do it well...Most independents that I know of are in the same boat, so not all of us have "endless funding", never had and never will...

 

Unless they are talking about the "endless funding" that the teachers spend of their own money, I'm not sure what they are talking about either.

[ladiesbballcoach]

All Tell makes some valid points. I see nothing wrong with making the public schools accountable and to require full disclosure in regard to how they spend the seemingly endless funding that they receive.

Would you please explain the bolded phrase you have used? As a public school employee, I am not sure what you are talking about since as a public school golf coach, I get money for transportation, pay for the use of the golf course in which we are allowed on the course 2 days a week, and one golf ball per player per match and that is it. For trips to play in tournaments to get our players seen throughout the state and for all-state tournament points we have to fundraise. For shirts to play matches in, we fundraise. For any and all other expenses, we would fundraise.

[RockPride]

I'd like to know an explanation as well.

[LSURock]

Well it is a fact that public schools receive and spend more per student than private schools. I don't know about "endless" but its more year after year. When was the last time an education budget was reduced? Not including an actual reduction in students of course.

[SilverShadow]

Well it is a fact that public schools receive and spend more per student than private schools. I don't know about "endless" but its more year after year. When was the last time an education budget was reduced? Not including an actual reduction in students of course.

 

I continue to be amazed at the narrow view assumptions always being made by some corners. The public schools would be significantly less in expenditures if the high cost that is not provided by government to the education of special needs programs. There is one case in Lexington the cost for a particular student is over 150k per year. One student. This is not unique and is common across the board. Can any private school make the same claim to special needs extreme expenditures? If the proper reimbursements to date would be made to KY public schools, the local districts would receive back a quarter billion. That is a fact.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I continue to be amazed at the narrow view assumptions always being made by some corners. The public schools would be significantly less in expenditures if the high cost that is not provided by government to the education of special needs programs. There is one case in Lexington the cost for a particular student is over 150k per year. One student. This is not unique and is common across the board. Can any private school make the same claim to special needs extreme expenditures? If the proper reimbursements to date would be made to KY public schools, the local districts would receive back a quarter billion. That is a fact.

There is a program in NKY for extreme behavior cases. The local schools pay for spots in the program. Each spot is $15,000 per year. Most smaller schools have 5 or 6 spots. The spots are at a premium and do not go unused. That is $75,000 per year the school district spends to send those 5 students there and that does not cover the cost of the bus or the bus driver that picks them up and makes the approximate 3 hour round trip tour (picks the kids up at their house and then heads north to Cold Springs with them) in the morning and in the evening to take and bring back those students.

[scooterbob]

Would you please explain the bolded phrase you have used? As a public school employee, I am not sure what you are talking about since as a public school golf coach, I get money for transportation, pay for the use of the golf course in which we are allowed on the course 2 days a week, and one golf ball per player per match and that is it. For trips to play in tournaments to get our players seen throughout the state and for all-state tournament points we have to fundraise. For shirts to play matches in, we fundraise. For any and all other expenses, we would fundraise.

 

I would suggest that the taxpayers shouldn't be required to fund your golf team. I would find it hard to believe that those who play golf cannot afford their own shirts and golf balls. I have always believed that, if my child wishes to participate in a school activity, academic or otherwise, I should foot the bill for the extra cost. This is the duty of all parents. As for those who cannot aford to pay for these extras, then the families of the others who participate should pay for the less fortunate participants. Use fundraisers or wghatever means you prefer but don't expect the taxpayers to fund golf teams, cheerleaders, or academic teams.

 

A free public education should not always be taken literally.

[ladiesbballcoach]

I would suggest that the taxpayers shouldn't be required to fund your golf team. I would find it hard to believe that those who play golf cannot afford their own shirts and golf balls. I have always believed that, if my child wishes to participate in a school activity, academic or otherwise, I should foot the bill for the extra cost. This is the duty of all parents. As for those who cannot aford to pay for these extras, then the families of the others who participate should pay for the less fortunate participants. Use fundraisers or wghatever means you prefer but don't expect the taxpayers to fund golf teams, cheerleaders, or academic teams.

 

A free public education should not always be taken literally.

Now I am confused even more.

 

You made the statement that implied that public schools have an "endless supply of funding" and I assumed that was for athletics since we are discussing athletics but then you say that the athletics shouldn't get the part of this "endless supply of funding" that you alluded to.

 

So, were you implying that public school athletics have endless funding?

[scooterbob]

There is a program in NKY for extreme behavior cases. The local schools pay for spots in the program. Each spot is $15,000 per year. Most smaller schools have 5 or 6 spots. The spots are at a premium and do not go unused. That is $75,000 per year the school district spends to send those 5 students there and that does not cover the cost of the bus or the bus driver that picks them up and makes the approximate 3 hour round trip tour (picks the kids up at their house and then heads north to Cold Springs with them) in the morning and in the evening to take and bring back those students.

 

Does anyone need a better example of public waste? It might be nice for the well behaved students whose parents are footing the bills to get such special treatment. Are there any statistics as to the "return on investment" for this program? Do these "extreme behavior cases" become responsible citizens? I'll bet we already know the answer. More dollars rarely solve problems. Look at New Orleans and poor old Houston which inherited much of NO's problems- and its crime.

[scooterbob]

Now I am confused even more.

 

You made the statement that implied that public schools have an "endless supply of funding" and I assumed that was for athletics since we are discussing athletics but then you say that the athletics shouldn't get the part of this "endless supply of funding" that you alluded to.

 

So, were you implying that public school athletics have endless funding?

 

I'm saying that the public schools have plenty of money to operate. They don't need more. How the money is used is the problem. I am also saying that you should be accountable. Somehow, buying new golf shirts for a golf team doesn't strike me as a duty of the taxpayers. I am for a little more emphasis on "responsibility" and "accountability" and a little less emphasis on "rights" and "entitlements". I suppose it is a difference in philosophy. Must we always enter an activity with our empty hands extended seeking to have them filled with coins?