Fake Gun Store, NYC

[Dlbdonn]

Ok, reading through this thread, I have seen post upon post mentioning people's "mental health", as a reason to stop them from owning a firearm. My question is this: To what limit would you use this? what Mental Disorders are "ok", and which one's aren't?

I am a gun owner, an outdoorsman, and a supporter of the 2nd amendment. I also suffer from clinical depression, and am medicated for it. Does this mean, in your eyes, that I should no longer be allowed to own or use a firearm, solely based on the fact that I have a chemical imbalance in my brain? I have never considered going on a shooting spree, and think of myself as a responsible gun owner.

Yes it does . Anyone who is taking medication to control a mental disorder should be disqualified from owing firearms until the medication is no longer needed .

[Hellcats]

Ok, reading through this thread, I have seen post upon post mentioning people's "mental health", as a reason to stop them from owning a firearm. My question is this: To what limit would you use this? what Mental Disorders are "ok", and which one's aren't?

I am a gun owner, an outdoorsman, and a supporter of the 2nd amendment. I also suffer from clinical depression, and am medicated for it. Does this mean, in your eyes, that I should no longer be allowed to own or use a firearm, solely based on the fact that I have a chemical imbalance in my brain? I have never considered going on a shooting spree, and think of myself as a responsible gun owner.

 

We have nothing that limits the sale of guns to anyone whether they are getting treatment or not. Not being in the psychiatric profession, I doubt I am best qualified to say who should own guns while they are being treated, but I do know some cases and treatments will cause people to be more violent to themselves or others. So simply put I don't know the parameters, but it sure would be nice to have some.

 

Also RTS, remember it's not an all or nothing argument. We can't pass just one law or make one change and fix the gun violence issue we have in the good ole USA.

[Run To State]

Also RTS, remember it's not an all or nothing argument. We can't pass just one law or make one change and fix the gun violence issue we have in the good ole USA.

So what are you saying exactly to me here? I don't want to misunderstand your comment. Are you telling me we have to pass a bunch more gun legislation? What would that entail? What guarantees would they have to fix the gun violence issue? What, in your opinion, would fix the gun violence issue? I'm not trying to be combative, I really want to know.

[Run To State]

Yes it does . Anyone who is taking medication to control a mental disorder should be disqualified from owing firearms until the medication is no longer needed .

 

So you think he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because he's being treated and yet has never shown to be a threat? Not everyone with a chemical imbalance equates to a mental disorder. This is the attitude from the left that should concern all.

[B-Ball-fan]

Sadly it all sounds like a very messed up complex thing to ever have run completely smoothly. So he's on meds for a chemical imbalance for depression. Well at least he's on meds, but just because it's never been a problem doesn't mean it never could be, but also doesn't mean that it will. How do we ever really know ahead of the game? If anything were to ever go wrong then people would instantly say that he shouldn't have had a gun in the first place.

 

Another question is how many people are out there with mental disorders or chemical imbalances who've never been diagnosed and are not on medication? With no documented history what will stop them from getting a gun as a background check won't bring up any problems, but in fact problems exist without ever being brought to anyone's attention. If one has a problem are they always self aware of it?

[Hellcats]

So what are you saying exactly to me here? I don't want to misunderstand your comment. Are you telling me we have to pass a bunch more gun legislation? What would that entail? What guarantees would they have to fix the gun violence issue? What, in your opinion, would fix the gun violence issue? I'm not trying to be combative, I really want to know.

 

 

Yes and yes.

 

A whole lot more than saying "it's just the way do it here."

 

What do you want me and anyone else on here to say that hasn't already been said?

 

Nothing will totally eradicate gun violence. I realize that, but I still believe we try to put a finger in the dam.

 

Better question, as staunch pro-gun, what do we do?

[mcpapa]

I am seeing two primary issues here. Mental health, and drugs/criminals. An oversimplification for sure, but these seem to be a couple of the overarching issues with respect to the debate.

 

I read a fascinating passage in a novel the other day, focusing on the second of those two issues.

 

"For almost one hundred years, your (our) government has tried to limit the amount of drugs entering this country, They have spent trillions of dollars. And the end result is that more drugs pass through your borders than ever before. Yet your politicians still expect a solution from the supply side. Stop the Afghani or Peruvian farmer from producing! Arrest the importer. The distributor. When will your countrymen accept that the problem is one of demand? Reduce demand and the market goes away. But somehow such a voice in your debate is considered to be 'soft' on drugs. What is 'soft' is the rigor of intellectual honesty."

[LIPTON BASH]

So I've avoided this topic because it's the same people bring up the same points but I'll throw out a few points that will anger people on both sides.

 

1. We live in the most free country in the world and you may not like it but freedom comes with risks. I don't need to be refered to other countries in Europe because their countries don't experience our freedoms. Whether it's the first or 2nd ammendment or host of other freedoms we take for granted.

 

2. We do have a host of laws on the books many don't want to acknowledge. Maybe a few could be fine tuned. The mental health issue is my biggest concern and obviously the biggest cause for suicides and mass shootings. We need to tackle something on this issue. I keep hearing revamping HIPPA it's not as easy as some of you are stating. This again conflicts with our right to privacy and discouraging people to get needed help. But this Avenue should be explored and fixed.

 

3. Where does a majority of our murders happen ? Surrounding drugs and drug dealers? As I've stated many times , all we have to do is look at prohibition of alcohol and the violence surrounding it 90 years ago. Legalize and get the gangs and cartels out of the business of drugs those murders drop immediately. Isn't popular but history tells us remove criminals remove a majority of the violence.

 

4. I'd love an answer from the anti gun crowd. I hear a lot about assault rifles. We all know a large majority of murders come from hand guns not rifles. Such a small number of shootings come from these supposed assault rifles . Why focus on them ? So do you guys really want to ban hand guns? I'd like honesty. That is the only ban that would have any affect.

 

We all know most won't admit they want hand guns banned because at that point they know they lose most their support.

 

I just like transparency.

[LIPTON BASH]

I am seeing two primary issues here. Mental health, and drugs/criminals. An oversimplification for sure, but these seem to be a couple of the overarching issues with respect to the debate.

 

I read a fascinating passage in a novel the other day, focusing on the second of those two issues.

 

"For almost one hundred years, your (our) government has tried to limit the amount of drugs entering this country, They have spent trillions of dollars. And the end result is that more drugs pass through your borders than ever before. Yet your politicians still expect a solution from the supply side. Stop the Afghani or Peruvian farmer from producing! Arrest the importer. The distributor. When will your countrymen accept that the problem is one of demand? Reduce demand and the market goes away. But somehow such a voice in your debate is considered to be 'soft' on drugs. What is 'soft' is the rigor of intellectual honesty."

 

Read my post . I agree our approach to the war on drugs is a huge part of the violence problem.

[Musketeer_alum97]

So let me get this straight, Tm. With out knowing anything about me, other than the fact that I have been diagnosed with depression, you believe that I should not be allowed to own, or use a firearm to protect myself and my family, or to provide food for my family through legal hunting practices, or any other reason. What about the fact that I have been through, and passed, a concealed weapons class and a hunters education class? How about the fact that I was raised around firearms, and taught safety and to respect them from the earliest of ages? None of that factors into your decision? It's ok to just lump all people that may not be "perfect" in the head into one group and forbid any of us to use firearms. How about, since you are at it, maybe force potential gun owners to subject themselves to personality tests, Rorschach tests, and IQ tests? Its proven that people with higher than average IQs are more likely to suffer from mental health disorders. So, we can just stop all "smart" people from owning guns. Is that your next idea?

 

And one last thing. The government forcing people to have tattoos applied as a form of identification has been tried before.... Just ask the Holocaust survivors.

[mcpapa]

Read my post . I agree our approach to the war on drugs is a huge part of the violence problem.

 

Agree wholeheartedly.

[ggclfan]

I only liked your post because I could not love it Muskie Alum. We as a nation will NEVER agree on what constitutes a mental health issue and what does not. Messing with HIPPA laws would be a HUGE issue due to privacy laws, which are there for a reason. We all know two psychiatrists could see the same patient and come up with totally different diagnoses as to whether the person is competent to have a gun. The mental health issue when it comes to guns is extremely difficult and I don't think anyone in Congress wants any part of dealing with it.

[rockmom]

I have avoided this thread because I sincerely don't believe anything I say will be taken seriously. But, all good things must end.

 

I don't, nor will I own a gun. And it's not because I am anti gun. I am not. But I do think (for the eleventh billionth time), that there needs to be some sort of priviso by which safety courses must be required and recertification required and some reasonable intervals. Before anyone jumps on the registration issue, one does not have to own a gun to get a hunting license, so I don't see why this idea couldn't follow that line.

 

And the second issue for me is strengthening the legal ramifications for irresponsible storage or usage of a gun, when an accident involves a child. It is unconscionable the number of children whose lives are taken or are injured because of the carelessness of adults.

[Dlbdonn]

So you think he shouldn't be allowed to own a gun because he's being treated and yet has never shown to be a threat? Not everyone with a chemical imbalance equates to a mental disorder. This is the attitude from the left that should concern all.

Yes , and I do not consider myself even remotely on the left . That is just a pejorative that you use toward people who dare to disagree with your radical ideas concerning gun ownership .

[Dlbdonn]

So let me get this straight, Tm. With out knowing anything about me, other than the fact that I have been diagnosed with depression, you believe that I should not be allowed to own, or use a firearm to protect myself and my family, or to provide food for my family through legal hunting practices, or any other reason. What about the fact that I have been through, and passed, a concealed weapons class and a hunters education class? How about the fact that I was raised around firearms, and taught safety and to respect them from the earliest of ages? None of that factors into your decision? It's ok to just lump all people that may not be "perfect" in the head into one group and forbid any of us to use firearms. How about, since you are at it, maybe force potential gun owners to subject themselves to personality tests, Rorschach tests, and IQ tests? Its proven that people with higher than average IQs are more likely to suffer from mental health disorders. So, we can just stop all "smart" people from owning guns. Is that your next idea?

 

And one last thing. The government forcing people to have tattoos applied as a form of identification has been tried before.... Just ask the Holocaust survivors.

As to the First yes . As to your second point . The holocaust survivors were innocents while my example would only apply to convicted violent criminals . Your analogy is spurious .