Why Can't Chapman Pitch Before the 9th?

[LOOGY]

Somebody already mentioned this but, why not put LeCure in the 8th inning role right now to giver Broxton some time to figure his crap out? Hes been the best reliever so far this year. I understand he was unavailable yesterday, but going forward I think this could be a great short term solution. Once Marshall gets back I hope they demote Ondrusek. He has been terrible since being recalled, and has no business on the roster.

[Clyde]

Let's move this away from the 4+ out save.

 

Why can't we bring our best reliever/ace into kill a potential game-tying situation against the heart of the opponent's order?

[Voice of Reason]

Let's move this away from the 4+ out save.

 

Why can't we bring our best reliever/ace into kill a potential game-tying situation against the heart of the opponent's order?

 

Money/agents. You start taking saves away from your closer, and there will be a rebellion.

[LOOGY]

Let's move this away from the 4+ out save.

 

Why can't we bring our best reliever/ace into kill a potential game-tying situation against the heart of the opponent's order?

 

I believe you should have more than 1 guy in a bullpen that should be able to do that.

[CincySportsFan]

Money/agents. You start taking saves away from your closer, and there will be a rebellion.

 

It would be interesting to know just how many (if any) of the closers have any incentive-laden contracts.

[RSkinner]

Garret Jones vs. LHP this year 1 for 7 with 3 KS

Garrett Jones career vs. LHP: .197 BA, .353 SLG 123 Ks in 511 PA

 

LHB vs Aroldis Chapman this year: 3 for 23 (all singles) with 15 Ks

LHB career vs Aroldis Chapman: 17 for 162 (3 2Bs, 1 HR) for a .105 BA with 90 KS

 

Possible RHB on bench: Clint Barmes; Mike McKenry and Brandon Inge, all hitting .234 or less with a combined 5 HR..

 

Yep, no reason to bring in Chapman at all to face the left and get a 4-out save

[Voice of Reason]

Garret Jones vs. LHP this year 1 for 7 with 3 KS

Garrett Jones career vs. LHP: .197 BA, .353 SLG 123 Ks in 511 PA

 

LHB vs Aroldis Chapman this year: 3 for 23 (all singles) with 15 Ks

LHB career vs Aroldis Chapman: 17 for 162 (3 2Bs, 1 HR) for a .105 BA with 90 KS

 

Possible RHB on bench: Clint Barmes; Mike McKenry and Brandon Inge, all hitting .234 or less with a combined 5 HR..

 

Yep, no reason to bring in Chapman at all to face the left and get a 4-out save

 

Great stuff. And I will add again a comment made above - just go ahead and start Chapman warming up when Broxton takes the mound with the plan that when Jones comes up, Chapman is coming in whether that is bottom 8 or bottom 9. No extra wear and tear on Chapman with that plan and maybe you get a win.

[AverageJoesGym]

We all really know the answer to the question posed in this thread. Today's by the book baseball says don't use your closer before the ninth. Managers just aren't going to step out of the box and do this. I wonder how many 4 out+ saves there were in baseball last year and/or this year.

 

What current manager do you think would possibly use a closer this way? Anyone?

 

Don Mattingly has talked about using his best reliever in the tightest spot but not necessarily to get 4+ outs. That's why he has League close instead of Jansen, who is the the better pitcher. He'll used Jansen in the 7th or 8th to kill a rally and then turns it over to League to start the 9th. That isn't really the situation that you described but it's about the only manager that I can think of that uses his best reliever before the 9th.

[Voice of Reason]

Don Mattingly has talked about using his best reliever in the tightest spot but not necessarily to get 4+ outs. That's why he has League close instead of Jansen, who is the the better pitcher. He'll used Jansen in the 7th or 8th to kill a rally and then turns it over to League to start the 9th. That isn't really the situation that you described but it's about the only manager that I can think of that uses his best reliever before the 9th.

 

And that is about to change. One more bad outing by League and Jansen will be the closer.

[SSC]

I am fine with Chapman being used like he is right now. It's dumb but as some people have pointed out Broxton has to get people out at some point for it not to matter. If Chapman had gone 5 or more batters to go an inning and a third yesterday he probably would be limited or not available today b/c of the ways guys are babied. If however this was in the last few weeks of the season chasing a playoff spot or in the playoffs it would be really dumb not to have him ready. June 2nd is not the time to get overly worried about it. Saying all of that I have zero faith Dusty would bring him in on October 12th in the same situation.

[Hellbird]

Mariano Rivera has over 100 career saves where he pitched at least part of the 8th inning.

 

If we all agree that Chapman is the best in the pen why can't we use him other than the 9th inning?

 

Why can he not be used in an 7th or 8th inning situation where the Reds have a 1 or 2 run lead and the opponent has runners on base?

 

Use him when the opponent is most likely to narrow or erase the lead from the 7th on.

 

The answer is simple...he can. Chapman pitched 7 years in Cuba as a starter, the problem here is not he can't do it, it's Dusty is the worst Manager when it comes to managing pitchers. If anyone had any doubt, simply go back to the playoffs last year or how he ruined Volquez by letting him pitch 587 innings in 3 days.

[LOOGY]

The answer is simple...he can. Chapman pitched 7 years in Cuba as a starter, the problem here is not he can't do it, it's Dusty is the worst Manager when it comes to managing pitchers. If anyone had any doubt, simply go back to the playoffs last year or how he ruined Volquez by letting him pitch 587 innings in 3 days.

 

Give me an instance on how he screwed up the playoffs?

[LRCW]

 

The answer is simple...he can. Chapman pitched 7 years in Cuba as a starter, the problem here is not he can't do it, it's Dusty is the worst Manager when it comes to managing pitchers. If anyone had any doubt, simply go back to the playoffs last year or how he ruined Volquez by letting him pitch 587 innings in 3 days.

 

What are you talking about on Volquez?

The guy could hardly get through 4 or 5innings.

[Hellbird]

Give me an instance on how he screwed up the playoffs?

 

You need not go any further than his starters rotation.

Homer Bailey was the best Road pitcher in baseball and should have started game 1 followed by Latos in game 2 and then Cueto in the first game in cincy period. Should never have been a question about the starting order.

 

 

If you want more just fast forward to the final game of the series.

 

Dusty is a horrible manager period.

[LOOGY]

You need not go any further than his starters rotation.

Homer Bailey was the best Road pitcher in baseball and should have started game 1 followed by Latos in game 2 and then Cueto in the first game in cincy period. Should never have been a question about the starting order.

 

 

If you want more just fast forward to the final game of the series.

 

Dusty is a horrible manager period.

 

They won the first 2 games on the road then Bailey pitched the best game of his career at home in a game the Reds should have won... Then I dont know what you wanted him to do for the last game with an injured Cueto... I think you are so blinded by your hate of Dusty you lost track of reality remembering the playoffs