Gametime, you lost the other argument, but thanks for agreeing with me on this point. You are relentless though

Because Chapman is lazy and doesnt want too.

How about Broxton does his freakin job and we're not having this conversation. Latos has to be hatin on the pen this season!

How about Broxton does his freakin job and we're not having this conversation. Latos has to be hatin on the pen this season!

 

Exactly. If he can't be trusted to get a guy hitting .270 with 4 HR out, this team is heading for another early exit either way...

Mo's cutter is low stress because that is the only thing he throws, ever. He, literally, can't throw a ball straight. He has said it many times. It just moves.

 

I know many guys that struggle warming up multiple times, throwing more than one inning...etc. They are all different. My guess is Chapman wouldn't be able to go two days in a row if he has to sit between innings. Heck, he didn't do it last year and had fatigue. How long would he last this year going 4 outs twice a week?

How about Broxton does his freakin job and we're not having this conversation. Latos has to be hatin on the pen this season!

 

Broxton is sure making the decision to put Chapman in the pen look very smart and Jocketty's decision to sign Broxton to the big contract not so smart.

Mo's cutter is low stress because that is the only thing he throws, ever. He, literally, can't throw a ball straight. He has said it many times. It just moves.

 

:thumb:

 

I was specifically talking about Mo when calling it low stress. Comparing Chapman to Mo is as bad a comparison as one can make...

Boys, the cutter is more stressful than a 4seam fastball. I'm not sure where that fallacy started. And comparing Mariano to anyone is silly.

Boys, the cutter is more stressful than a 4seam fastball. I'm not sure where that fallacy started. And comparing Mariano to anyone is silly.

 

For Rivera it is effortless. For others, you are correct...

Boys, the cutter is more stressful than a 4seam fastball. I'm not sure where that fallacy started. And comparing Mariano to anyone is silly.

 

For others, I'm with you.

We all really know the answer to the question posed in this thread. Today's by the book baseball says don't use your closer before the ninth. Managers just aren't going to step out of the box and do this. I wonder how many 4 out+ saves there were in baseball last year and/or this year.

 

What current manager do you think would possibly use a closer this way? Anyone?

I feel like Chapman is starting to become a scapegoat. Everytime something goes wrong in the pen, people always ask why not Chapman? At some point you have to start realizing that as long as Chapman is a closer he ain't pitching before the 9th. Whether that be wrong or right that's up for discussion. Last year this bullpen was shutdown, this year it has more leaks than the titanic, it needs help and Chapman can't solve all of the issues.

I feel like Chapman is starting to become a scapegoat. Everytime something goes wrong in the pen, people always ask why not Chapman? At some point you have to start realizing that as long as Chapman is a closer he ain't pitching before the 9th. Whether that be wrong or right that's up for discussion. Last year this bullpen was shutdown, this year it has more leaks than the titanic, it needs help and Chapman can't solve all of the issues.

 

No, this won't get hung on Chapman. This will be put on Dusty - and it should be. He is the one making these decisions, like every other manager in the majors. Unfortunately, I don't see Dusty being a manager who will dare to be different than every other manager in baseball and make the 4 or 5 out save move.

 

The one thing I will add is that IMO this makes more sense when Broxton is pitching in closer worthy fashion. That is what I envisioned - Broxton getting closing opportunities on days following Chapman going more than one inning to get a save. That way you don't add wear and tear to Chapman by making him close in a game following one where he went more than one inning to get a save.

No, this won't get hung on Chapman. This will be put on Dusty - and it should be. He is the one making these decisions, like every other manager in the majors. Unfortunately, I don't see Dusty being a manager who will dare to be different than every other manager in baseball and make the 4 or 5 out save move.

 

I'm not saying its hung on Chapman. I'm just saying there should be guys in the bullpen right now that can do their job. And we shouldn't have to worry about putting Chapman in until the 9th.

I'm not saying its hung on Chapman. I'm just saying there should be guys in the bullpen right now that can do their job. And we shouldn't have to worry about putting Chapman in until the 9th.

 

True. This discussion is popular because Broxton and others are failing. That being said, the Reds have only blown 6 saves as a team all season. That ties for 12th best in all of baseball and 7th best in the NL. The team the Reds are chasing (Cardinals) is 5th worst in all of baseball and 3rd worst in the NL in blown saves, although those BLSV happened before Mujica became the closer. Mujica has 17 saves and has 0 blown saves.