The health of Kentucky high school football

[RCC9]

These "soloutions" seem to be changing the surroundings and not the participants. I think that is flawed logic.

Look at Central... a team that for years and years was a bottom dweller. They made a decision to become better and now they are on the list of the teams that make football "unhealthy"! That is a shame and a slap in their face. The models to becomming better teams/programs are out there friends... how bad do you want it?

 

LIKE!

[sml007]

Not saying that is why the players want to go to highlands, but it sure makes it an easier decision on the parents to either pick up and move or pay the outlandish tuition. And but the way, HHS currently is not accepting any tuition students until further notice. They are at their limit of number of kids they can manage on the education side. It will have zero effect on the football program.

 

It's been said on here a number of times, but its a great fact. The percentage of kids that transfer/move to go to HHS for education vastly out weighs the number of kids that transfer for football. So take take the stance the HHS is full because they've taken on so many football players! There are 6 girls on the BBall team that pay tuition and 2 of them are in the camp co district. Why did they come to HHS? I'm sure the football program had something to do with it.

 

I don't know nor care why girls basketball players go to Highlands. My guess is they probably all played AAU together. What does any of this have to do with the fact that 6 classes are allowing the rich to get richer and affecting health of football in KY?

 

The argument that the out of district players for Highlands came for academics is ridiculous. They came for football championships and at least two are starters and major contributors.

[AlbertFT]

I completely agree with smI007 but I hate how quickly a thread about Kentucky football turns into a discussion about Ft. Thomas Highkands. The claim about Central was true as well. Teams who win garner more public attention and football enrollment and attendance often goes up. This is good for football but at the expense of making the state look soft. There are too many bad teams that make the postseason and a smaller class system and larger districts would fix that.

[AlbertFT]

I am not one pleading for the little guy but to balance the system. More competition can be produced for the likes of Highlands and Mayfield. Trinity is on a different level and have been for quite some time. But we can't create a system to satisfy these few schools, it must be good for the state as a whole.

[skycvg]

 

The argument that the out of district players for Highlands came for academics is ridiculous. They came for football championships and at least two are starters and major contributors.

 

Last time I checked, we were the parents that decided where our son would attend high school, not you. Don't tell me that we didn't chose HHS for the academics first and foremost. When it came down to decision time, we had to weigh everything. Did we want to continue in the Kenton county school system? Did we want him to attend a school that failed to prepare our daughter academically for college? Did HE want to continue in the system that does nothing about bullying, etc.? Let's see...able to take AP classes as a frosh, better academics, better environment...OR... not be prepared for college, no AP classes until junior year, higher teacher/student ration, less than desirable environment...Hmmmmm... no surprise we chose HHS.

 

He could play football anywhere, probably get more playing time at the county school, but would he learn anything? Would he develop better there? Would he enjoy it better? Answer to all these questions is NO. He learned more in the FTJFL in two years than he ever did in the 6 years in other programs. Would we send him to a school that may have the number one program in the state if it didn't have the academics to support it? NO. Don't dare tell a parent why THEY made a decision to send their child, male or female, to whatever school.

 

The atmosphere at HHS is way above the county school, that includes behavior issues, etc. The academics is top notch, and having an outstanding sports program is literally "icing on the cake". Most importantly, HE is happier. If your child is miserable at a school, and there are options to get them out of a less desirable environment, what parent is not going to do whatever they can to change it?

 

Instead of bashing successful programs, and saying the "rich are getting richer", why don't the lesser successful schools learn from the more successful ones? Take a few pages from their books and implement some new techniques. What do they do differently in the off season? What makes them so successful...?

[sml007]

Last time I checked, we were the parents that decided where our son would attend high school, not you. Don't tell me that we didn't chose HHS for the academics first and foremost. When it came down to decision time, we had to weigh everything. Did we want to continue in the Kenton county school system? Did we want him to attend a school that failed to prepare our daughter academically for college? Did HE want to continue in the system that does nothing about bullying, etc.? Let's see...able to take AP classes as a frosh, better academics, better environment...OR... not be prepared for college, no AP classes until junior year, higher teacher/student ration, less than desirable environment...Hmmmmm... no surprise we chose HHS.

 

He could play football anywhere, probably get more playing time at the county school, but would he learn anything? Would he develop better there? Would he enjoy it better? Answer to all these questions is NO. He learned more in the FTJFL in two years than he ever did in the 6 years in other programs. Would we send him to a school that may have the number one program in the state if it didn't have the academics to support it? NO. Don't dare tell a parent why THEY made a decision to send their child, male or female, to whatever school.

 

The atmosphere at HHS is way above the county school, that includes behavior issues, etc. The academics is top notch, and having an outstanding sports program is literally "icing on the cake". Most importantly, HE is happier. If your child is miserable at a school, and there are options to get them out of a less desirable environment, what parent is not going to do whatever they can to change it?

 

Instead of bashing successful programs, and saying the "rich are getting richer", why don't the lesser successful schools learn from the more successful ones? Take a few pages from their books and implement some new techniques. What do they do differently in the off season? What makes them so successful...?

 

First of all, nobody is bashing Highlands. You should probably read the whole thread. Secondly, whether you like it or not, the rich are getting richer because of 6 classes. Are there other factors? Yes. Is 6 classes one of them? Yes. The proof is in the history of the 6 years prior to 6 classes and the 6 years after 6 classes. And, this thread is not about Highlands. Highlands is just an example. Also, the academics at Highlands are a direct reflection of the Ft. Thomas parents and community. This is the same with every school. If education is important at home, then it is important. If Highlands does not win football championships, WAY less football players go there from outside Ft. Thomas for 'academic' reasons. I realize there are many factors that go into these decisions. Academics are one, but football championships another.

[JCVD]

Last time I checked, we were the parents that decided where our son would attend high school, not you. Don't tell me that we didn't chose HHS for the academics first and foremost. When it came down to decision time, we had to weigh everything. Did we want to continue in the Kenton county school system? Did we want him to attend a school that failed to prepare our daughter academically for college? Did HE want to continue in the system that does nothing about bullying, etc.? Let's see...able to take AP classes as a frosh, better academics, better environment...OR... not be prepared for college, no AP classes until junior year, higher teacher/student ration, less than desirable environment...Hmmmmm... no surprise we chose HHS.

 

He could play football anywhere, probably get more playing time at the county school, but would he learn anything? Would he develop better there? Would he enjoy it better? Answer to all these questions is NO. He learned more in the FTJFL in two years than he ever did in the 6 years in other programs. Would we send him to a school that may have the number one program in the state if it didn't have the academics to support it? NO. Don't dare tell a parent why THEY made a decision to send their child, male or female, to whatever school.

 

The atmosphere at HHS is way above the county school, that includes behavior issues, etc. The academics is top notch, and having an outstanding sports program is literally "icing on the cake". Most importantly, HE is happier. If your child is miserable at a school, and there are options to get them out of a less desirable environment, what parent is not going to do whatever they can to change it?

 

Instead of bashing successful programs, and saying the "rich are getting richer", why don't the lesser successful schools learn from the more successful ones? Take a few pages from their books and implement some new techniques. What do they do differently in the off season? What makes them so successful...?

 

Quality post

[Hellbird]

No one has answered the simple question yet. If 4 classes is the choice to making better comnpetition so the same teams don't continue to win state titles, please explain how 4 classes will make Trinity lose and HHS lose etc.

 

4 classes or 6 classes you will still have the same dominate teams dominate the title games still. Did Highlands still win numerous titles when there were only 4 classes? did Trinity still dominate when there were only 4 classes? Did Beechwood and Mayfield still dominate the last 20 in their class? I rest my case.

[RomanEmpire]

No one has answered the simple question yet. If 4 classes is the choice to making better comnpetition so the same teams don't continue to win state titles, please explain how 4 classes will make Trinity lose and HHS lose etc.

 

4 classes or 6 classes you will still have the same dominate teams dominate the title games still. Did Highlands still win numerous titles when there were only 4 classes? did Trinity still dominate when there were only 4 classes? Did Beechwood and Mayfield still dominate the last 20 in their class? I rest my case.

 

Classes are not the problem. Goes much deeper. Leveling the playing field so teams competing are apples to apples is THE issue. I rest my case.

[RCC9]

I don't know nor care why girls basketball players go to Highlands. My guess is they probably all played AAU together. What does any of this have to do with the fact that 6 classes are allowing the rich to get richer and affecting health of football in KY?

 

The argument that the out of district players for Highlands came for academics is ridiculous. They came for football championships and at least two are starters and major contributors.

 

It proves my point that kids come to hhs for more than just football. To single out football and act like it's so unique is rediculous. They do come for education and the coaching. As a parent, I want my kid to get a great education and play for a great coach. Championships are not guaranteed, so they are a very little factor in my decision. If they win, great! If not, I still know my kid was prepared for the next level from the education and coaching they got. That's the point.

 

The bball analagy is to prove that kids come to HHS for all kinds of reasons, but the major reason is acedemics, whether you believe that or not. The six girls were not on the same AAU team and are all spread out from freshman to senior. So that's an incorrect assumption. They come becasue they want to play for a good coach and get a great education...same reasons football players come. My point is, it's not just football, but everyone accuses HHS of this because they see the results of the football team and don't care about the girls bball team. You can't single out one sport and generalize the football program just because you think that's why they come. The two kids you mention may or may not be impact players...but HHS has many transfers or tuition students that play football that are never impact players. They came for education and enjoy being a part of the football program.

 

It has to do with the topic because everyone is quick to try and look at the top programs instead of looking at making the other programs better. Football is in a sad state because of the 6 divisions and wanting everyone to get a trophy. It takes away work ethic and the determination to get better. Forget about the participation levels. If a kid is encouraged to play football because its now easier to get a championship, we are in a much sadder state that I even thought. Again like someone said, let's print off participation ribbons and award them to everyone!

[RCC9]

First of all, nobody is bashing Highlands. You should probably read the whole thread. Secondly, whether you like it or not, the rich are getting richer because of 6 classes. Are there other factors? Yes. Is 6 classes one of them? Yes. The proof is in the history of the 6 years prior to 6 classes and the 6 years after 6 classes. And, this thread is not about Highlands. Highlands is just an example. Also, the academics at Highlands are a direct reflection of the Ft. Thomas parents and community. This is the same with every school. If education is important at home, then it is important. If Highlands does not win football championships, WAY less football players go there from outside Ft. Thomas for 'academic' reasons. I realize there are many factors that go into these decisions. Academics are one, but football championships another.

 

I say you are crazy and have no idea what you're talking about. The parent just told you EXACTLY why they came to HHS and that is pretty much the identical story to every football player/kid/boy/girl/tennis player that comes to HHS. If you are saying they are coming for championships, that's an insult to the parents!

 

And it doesn't have to be about HHS. We talk about HHS because it's what we know. But I bet it's the same at all the successful schools. Insert whatever name you want...with a few exceptions I'm sure. Beechwood, Cov Cath, NCC, HHS, Holy Cross!

[Bluegrasscard]

As I sit here and watch Mark Stoops get introduced its a reasonable question to ask what defines 'health'?

 

In no particular order here are some categories that may (or may not depending on your opinion) define what 'healthy' HS football looks like.

 

- Participation. Growing. New programs, expanded current programs. More true freshman and JV squads.

- Competitiveness. Good playoff matches.

- National notoriety. Beatty on All-American Bowl staff. National TV games. National rankings.

- Number of D1 recruits, number of D2 recruits, etc.

- In state recruiting by flagship programs. More Towles, Bolins.

- Level playing field.

 

'health' has a lot of defnitions depending on the eye of the beholder.

 

To me key measures are a) participation and growth for more students statewide just that those who want to play get the chance and b) the success and expansion of kids playing at the next level. I think one feeds the other. An expanding pipeline of players means more good players and better games during the season and better opportunity for those who want to continue in college.

 

With Beatty on the All-American staff it would be good to see Kentucky have more than one player team in San Antonio. Of course, if healthy, Quick likely gets the nod. But it would be great if McCoy or others got on the squad as well.

[RCC9]

No one has answered the simple question yet. If 4 classes is the choice to making better comnpetition so the same teams don't continue to win state titles, please explain how 4 classes will make Trinity lose and HHS lose etc.

 

4 classes or 6 classes you will still have the same dominate teams dominate the title games still. Did Highlands still win numerous titles when there were only 4 classes? did Trinity still dominate when there were only 4 classes? Did Beechwood and Mayfield still dominate the last 20 in their class? I rest my case.

 

You'r right here...until other programs decide they want to suppport it like the schools mentioned, it's not going to change. However, it does condense the teams and at least makes it more challenging to win. Many have pointed out the example of HHS' 6 year record prior to this last run, compared to the last 6 years. More competiton kept them from winning all of them!

 

But at the end of the day, it makes no difference what the KHSAA does until teams step it up. The thing that is frustrating though is the reason why the created the 6 classes. To let other experience success! Really??? Create more classes because teams can't beat the perrenial successful programs. Really?? Is the lessons we want to teach our kids. Don't worry son, we'll create a solution for you instead of telling you to work harder. Talk about society in a nutshell. This is a lot bigger than just football!

[Ram]

As I sit here and watch Mark Stoops get introduced its a reasonable question to ask what defines 'health'?

The definition of "Health" is the problem. Just like people equate "quality" programs to the number of state championships they have, people often equate the "quality" of football in the state to the scores of playoff games. There are many quality programs that don't routinely, or ever, win state championships. As the overall health of the sport in Kentucky has improved without close scores in the state championships, in my opinion.

 

The problem is, some programs are never, or not routinely, going to beat the perennial powers, that brings on people trying to find a way to not have to play those perennial powers. IE: "Lets make a special class for the good programs", "lets change the number of classes", "lets set up the playoff format differently", and so on.

[skycvg]

First of all, nobody is bashing Highlands. You should probably read the whole thread. Secondly, whether you like it or not, the rich are getting richer because of 6 classes. Are there other factors? Yes. Is 6 classes one of them? Yes. The proof is in the history of the 6 years prior to 6 classes and the 6 years after 6 classes. And, this thread is not about Highlands. Highlands is just an example. Also, the academics at Highlands are a direct reflection of the Ft. Thomas parents and community. This is the same with every school. If education is important at home, then it is important. If Highlands does not win football championships, WAY less football players go there from outside Ft. Thomas for 'academic' reasons. I realize there are many factors that go into these decisions. Academics are one, but football championships another.

 

 

I HAVE read the entire thread. 25 posts mention HHS, leaving 49% discussing HHS in one way or another...I do agree that this tread as a whole is not about Highlands. But when Highlands, Trinity, Mayfield, Central are lumped together as perennial winners, and how can they be stopped and kept from winning all of the time, blah, blah, blah,....all supporters of these schools are going defend their programs.

 

 

"The argument that the out of district players for Highlands came for academics is ridiculous.".....And just what is this?

 

It has already been pointed out that HHS was starting to platoon around this time, when classes were expanded. That makes a big difference. The programs that have dabbled with platooning are succeeding, Cov Cath, BG, Lex Cath, etc., maybe not all into state champs, but they are pulling away from the rest of the field.

 

I was using our experience as an "example", to show that, no, we didn't chose HHS because of football as insinuated in the earlier quote. I believe that there are something close to 250, and I could be wrong (I probably am underestimating), tuition students in the school system. Only 8 play football (grades 10-12). Yep, all of the good players in NKY are at HHS...

 

The thread is "The health of KY football". Like I posted earlier, you will have programs that consistently win, until the others figure out the "secret". It's no big secret. What does HHS, Trinity, Mayfield, and Central, Belfry, Beechwood, etc., do in the off season that is different? What do they do during Spring football that is different? What do they do all summer to consistently stay good or get even better? Answer those questions and implement the solutions. Feeder programs that have all kids playing, not sitting on the bench. Developing talent behind the starters, is another. You never know what a kid is capable of if he never gets the chance to show you. Some kids don't practice well, but put them in a game, and he's a star. Standing around watching kids play both offense and defense, doesn't help a player develop, he needs to be out there doing it. If they are not involved, they will quit, and you will never know what could have been.

 

Why is Mayfield so successful every year? What do they do? They are in single A, but they seem to have Beechwood's number every year. Central seems to have Belfry's number too, but their state games are usually closer in score. What have they implemented to make them more successful? At least now, with 6 classes, more schools that may otherwise not have had a chance to go to state are able to play there. Cooper is a good example. They've made huge strides in 5 years. I was really excited to see them make it to state. Take what they did wrong, correct it, build on it, and you hopefully have another trip there next year, with a possibility of winning, you never know.