That's not how prayer was for us in school. It's not currently how it is at my son's school. If that's the way it is happening, maybe I'd agree. The coach simply said, "Let's pray". Some stood, some knelt, some didn't say a thing, some recited the prayer with him. Some stood there with their eyes wide open while others did not. Nothing was remotely forced. I never felt forced.

What's the difference in "let's pray" and "get on your knees - it's time for the Lord's Prayer"? In both instances the coach is telling/leading the kids in prayer which I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that kids feel compelled to follow...

Not sure what hanging a cross in the entrance to the school would show. Do I need to wear a necklace with a cross?

 

 

You asked who would lead the prayer? I said anyone.

 

No arrogance at all. You stated you separate your faith and public education issues? Why is there ever a need to separate or hide one's faith? I listed several examples of those who didn't. If the courts ruled that you must bow down and pray to their god, would you separate your faith, and what the courts have ruled, and do so?

By that logic are you down with theocracy?

Nobody ever answered Hatz's posts.

The most recent case in my memory on this came with a coach named Borden out of New Jersey. In that case, the school wouldn't let him do it and he sued, and the Third Circuit ruled in favor of the school. The Supremes denied cert. I believe that the Circuits are divided on this question, and the 6th Circuit (where we are) has held that if it is a non-compulsory gathering, they are OK. Still researching, though . . .

The most recent case in my memory on this came with a coach named Borden out of New Jersey. In that case, the school wouldn't let him do it and he sued, and the Third Circuit ruled in favor of the school. The Supremes denied cert. I believe that the Circuits are divided on this question, and the 6th Circuit (where we are) has held that if it is a non-compulsory gathering, they are OK. Still researching, though . . .

 

Correct me if I am misunderstanding this case.

 

The courts did NOT say he couldn't lead the team in prayer but, rather, they upheld the right of the school to prevent him from leadin them, correct?

Correct me if I am misunderstanding this case.

 

The courts did NOT say he couldn't lead the team in prayer but, rather, they upheld the right of the school to prevent him from leadin them, correct?

 

The Third Circuit applied the Santa Fe standard of review and upheld the New Jersey school system's policy that prohibited faculty participation in student-initiated prayer as constitutional. It also held that the coach's practice of holding a team moment of silence violated the Establishment Clause.

 

Here is a copy of the Opinion: http://www.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/063890p.pdf

What's the difference in "let's pray" and "get on your knees - it's time for the Lord's Prayer"? In both instances the coach is telling/leading the kids in prayer which I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that kids feel compelled to follow...

I can tell you what happened when I was there. Like I said above. Lots of different reactions when we prayed. It wasn't mandatory.

Since when all of a sudden is it wrong for a coach to lead a prayer? For many decades it has been done, so why wrong now?

 

I can tell you why.

 

Since us Christians elected immorality into office and stood back and watched the atheists push their agenda and do nothing about it. Now it is almost too late to get back what we lost. It is all Christians fault for letting this happen. We have allowed an atheist to defeat hundreds because they say their belief is right, so the immoral elected officials under pressure from political correctness allow the atheist to have their way. So now we have the above mentioned topic.

Edited August 24, 201214 yr by True blue (and gold)
added "s" to atheist, as it is plural

I can tell you what happened when I was there. Like I said above. Lots of different reactions when we prayed. It wasn't mandatory.

 

If your coach wanted to lead in Islamic prayer what do you feel the reaction would have been?

Since when all of a sudden is it wrong for a coach to lead a prayer? For many decades it has been done, so why wrong now?

 

I can tell you why.

 

Since us Christians elected immorality into office and stood back and watched the atheist push their agenda and do nothing about it. Now it is almost too late to get back what we lost. It is all Christians fault for letting this happen. We have allowed an atheist to defeat hundreds because they say their belief is right, so the immoral elected officials under pressure from political correctness allow the atheist to have their way. So now we have the above mentioned topic.

 

What do you feel is the atheist agenda?

What do you feel is the atheist agenda?

 

 

To get rid of the Christian religion, especially in America.

To get rid of the Christian religion, especially in America.

 

If they are atheists why just the Christian religion? Wouldn't they want to get rid of all religions?

 

I honestly haven't paid enough attention to have an informed opinion on whether or not the atheists have an agenda. I don't think their agenda would be any different than the Christian religion's agenda except for the difference in beliefs. I've never felt like FKW is trying to get rid of any of the Christians on here. I see him on Facebook and follow him on twitter and he isn't pushing an agenda on those platforms either so it's clear not all atheists have an agenda.

Since when all of a sudden is it wrong for a coach to lead a prayer? For many decades it has been done, so why wrong now?

 

I can tell you why.

 

Since us Christians elected immorality into office and stood back and watched the atheist push their agenda and do nothing about it. Now it is almost too late to get back what we lost. It is all Christians fault for letting this happen. We have allowed an atheist to defeat hundreds because they say their belief is right, so the immoral elected officials under pressure from political correctness allow the atheist to have their way. So now we have the above mentioned topic.

 

As to your first statement: Many things were "done for decades" that aren't now. Jim Crow, segregation, voting rights, etc.

 

To your second: I will remind you that the GOP (God's part to some), have controlled the White House in 5 out of the last 8 elections. They have also controlled the Congress for as much or more years than the "immoral" office people you speak of. The truth is that the courts have been controlled by both parties at different times (even the Supreme Court has as many or more justices chosen by Republican Presidents) so your hypothesis doesn't wash in my eyes.

 

To get rid of the Christian religion, especially in America.

 

Do you have evidence of this? Also, why only the Christian religion?

If they are atheists why just the Christian religion? Wouldn't they want to get rid of all religions?

 

I honestly haven't paid enough attention to have an informed opinion on whether or not the atheists have an agenda. I don't think their agenda would be any different than the Christian religion's agenda except for the difference in beliefs. I've never felt like FKW is trying to get rid of any of the Christians on here. I see him on Facebook and follow him on twitter and he isn't pushing an agenda on those platforms either so it's clear not all atheists have an agenda.

 

To be honest I never hear of atheists trying to get rid of Islam, Judaism, etc, just Christianity. I am guessing that those religious groups wont bow down to them like Christians have and our elected leaders are also afraid for some reason to make htem mad.

 

I dont think FKW pushes his beliefs, he may express them but has never condemed me for mine.

Edited August 24, 201214 yr by True blue (and gold)
added "s" to atheist, as it is plural