Okay, let me ask it this way: When a woman goes to the doctor & is informed she is pregnant, what do you believe is inside her womb?

A fetus.

Life in prison or the DP would seem to be the only acceptable choice if you believe it's murder.

 

I think the better way to word it is that a person guilty of abortion goes through the same legal process as any other person charged with and/or convicted of first degree murder. I say that because there people who were found guilty of first degree murder & did not get the death penalty, nor did they spend their entire lives in prison.

It definitely is the termination of a pregnancy.

 

My question is not whether it is murder or not.

 

My question is when you look at the ultrasound, do you or do you not believe that it is a life?

That's really as far as I go into it because that is suffecient enough for me, but I'll play along.

 

It's according to how you define life.

 

Also, how do you define it? Do you believe it is murder?

Our justice system qualifies murder all the time though. Cop-killers (I used cop killers only as an example by the way - it may not have been the best example) are automatically facing stiffer penalties than people who kill "normal citizens". There are different levels of murder, there is voluntary manslaughter, there is involuntary manslaughter... I would say, that yes, under our judicial system it really does matter as to the background.

 

I'm certainly no legal expert but I think if presented with this scenario it would fall under the highest level of murder:

 

Person deemed sane drives to a doctor's office, meets with the doctor to discuss the abortion procedure, understands that once it's over this life will no longer exist , and then says "go ahead."

 

If we're saying abortion is murder I can't see how it can be anything but first degree. It would be no different to me than a person sitting at home with a gun waiting for their spouse to return and when the spouse does return the gun is fired and the spouse is killed. Both had time to think about it. Both made the decision to end a life.

 

Again, IMO if you believe abortion is murder you HAVE to believe it is 1st Degree Murder.

I think the better way to word it is that a person guilty of abortion goes through the same legal process as any other person charged with and/or convicted of first degree murder. I say that because there people who were found guilty of first degree murder & did not get the death penalty, nor did they spend their entire lives in prison.

 

Fine. How can it not be 1st Degree Murder?

A fetus.

 

At what point, then, does the fetus become life?

 

Also, do you agree with laws in place where a man can be charged with murder if hits a pregnant woman & she loses the baby?

Fine. How can it not be 1st Degree Murder?

 

I agree with First Degree Murder. I'm just saying the sentencing for those convicted of such a crime don't always receive life in prison or the death penalty.

At what point, then, does the fetus become life?

 

Also, do you agree with laws in place where a man can be charged with murder if hits a pregnant woman & she loses the baby?

 

 

Ahhh...but here's where it becomes sticky.

 

For me, as a Catholic, I believe life begins at conception. Therfore, birthcontrol of any sort that involves inhibiting a fertilized egg, or the ability of the fertilized egg to become attached to the uterine wall.

 

I could pose the question, then, how does one abhor abortion, but advocate for birth control?

If you believe it is murder does it really matter as to the background? Do we give an 18-year-old kid who killed his girlfriend a break because he grew up without a dad and/or on welfare?

 

It's either murder or it isn't. You say it is so I would assume you would apply the same punishment to abortion that you would for the cop-killer. Both knew what they were doing when the "murder" took place. Life in prison or the DP would seem to be the only acceptable choice if you believe it's murder.

To me, saying "abortion is murder" is a way to sensationalize it. People hear the word murder and then they are mobilized behind an "evil". But, as you are alluding to, I don't think they are willing to treat it as murder. If you are going to call abortion murder then I think you should want to treat it as such. By that I mean, you punish with life in prison or capital punishment. You punish the nurses, receptionist, etc. as "accessories to murder.

I'm certainly no legal expert but I think if presented with this scenario it would fall under the highest level of murder:

 

Person deemed sane drives to a doctor's office, meets with the doctor to discuss the abortion procedure, understands that once it's over this life will no longer exist , and then says "go ahead."

 

If we're saying abortion is murder I can't see how it can be anything but first degree. It would be no different to me than a person sitting at home with a gun waiting for their spouse to return and when the spouse does return the gun is fired and the spouse is killed. Both had time to think about it. Both made the decision to end a life.

 

Again, IMO if you believe abortion is murder you HAVE to believe it is 1st Degree Murder.

 

I do believe it is - make no mistake. Excepting the cases where people are forcibly pressured into getting abortions (as many young women are), abortion is pre-meditated and calculated. I think that is the one of the great crimes of legalizing abortion in the first place. We as a country have legalized 1st degree murder and teach people that it is okay.

As a side note, there are currently almost 200 posts in this thread. Only 9 posts, posted by 5 different people (myself included) have mentioned the word "adoption". I think Planned Parenthood would like the way this conversation is going.

I agree with First Degree Murder. I'm just saying the sentencing for those convicted of such a crime don't always receive life in prison or the death penalty.

Do you want to change the laws to change so that the people who get and/or perform an abortion are charged with 1st degree murder?

Ahhh...but here's where it becomes sticky.

 

For me, as a Catholic, I believe life begins at conception. Therfore, birthcontrol of any sort that involves inhibiting a fertilized egg, or the ability of the fertilized egg to become attached to the uterine wall.

 

I could pose the question, then, how does one abhor abortion, but advocate for birth control?

 

Some forms of birth control are virtually the same as abortion, but not all. As you stated "birth control of any sort." There are some sorts of birth control to be avoided & some that are permissible.

Do you want to change the laws to change so that the people who get and/or perform an abortion are charged with 1st degree murder?

 

Absolutely.

Some forms of birth control are virtually the same as abortion, but not all. As you stated "birth control of any sort." There are some sorts of birth control to be avoided & some that are permissible.

 

Not according to my religious beliefs. If it's an artificial method, it's a no-no. NFP only, or abstinance.