NKY POY

[cooperstown]

The kid that gets left off of the list because of our tendancy to only using offensive stats and/or pitching stats is Liggett. He's hitting in the high .300s against a strong schedule AND he's arguably the biggest defensive asset in NKY.

 

Not just "our" tendency though - apparently the same criteria is used by the people who make the actual decisions. And, to some extent, I can understand that. It really would be almost impossible to see enough games to know who are the truly elite defensive players vs. the ones that are just plain ol' good.

[fastball21]

Here are my thoughts on why HOSKINS would not be POY. Offensively he is a good player; but lets remember the past POY's. Did they hit better than average...yes. Did they get pinch run for....No. I want the POY to be strong offensively and defensively. So I will give you the offensive but defensively he is not even close. I have seen him catch and he does not know how to frame or "stick a pitch". I think that Ryle pitchers lose about 12-15 strikes per game because he does not know how frame or stick a pitch. I have spoken to several umpires in the league and they say if he would stick the pitch they would call the strike. He has a tendancy to drift and fall with pitches. Not to mention I saw him "stand up" on breaking pitches. So...I ask you..should player of the year know how to do these simple catching task? POY should be as good on offense as well as defense..NEXT....

[theshack13]

Here are my thoughts on why HOSKINS would not be POY. Offensively he is a good player; but lets remember the past POY's. Did they hit better than average...yes. Did they get pinch run for....No. I want the POY to be strong offensively and defensively. So I will give you the offensive but defensively he is not even close. I have seen him catch and he does not know how to frame or "stick a pitch". I think that Ryle pitchers lose about 12-15 strikes per game because he does not know how frame or stick a pitch. I have spoken to several umpires in the league and they say if he would stick the pitch they would call the strike. He has a tendancy to drift and fall with pitches. Not to mention I saw him "stand up" on breaking pitches. So...I ask you..should player of the year know how to do these simple catching task? POY should be as good on offense as well as defense..NEXT....

 

Totally agreed. Well the same exact thing can be said about Pugh. Everytime I've seen him in the field it doesnt look to good. Dont get me wrong the kid is probably one of the best hitters in NKY. Awesome hitter. But his defense is lacking big time.

[cooperstown]

Here are my thoughts on why HOSKINS would not be POY. Offensively he is a good player; but lets remember the past POY's. Did they hit better than average...yes. Did they get pinch run for....No. I want the POY to be strong offensively and defensively. So I will give you the offensive but defensively he is not even close. I have seen him catch and he does not know how to frame or "stick a pitch". I think that Ryle pitchers lose about 12-15 strikes per game because he does not know how frame or stick a pitch. I have spoken to several umpires in the league and they say if he would stick the pitch they would call the strike. He has a tendancy to drift and fall with pitches. Not to mention I saw him "stand up" on breaking pitches. So...I ask you..should player of the year know how to do these simple catching task? POY should be as good on offense as well as defense..NEXT....

 

Defense has little, if any, impact on POY consideration. It is an offense/pitching based award, whether that's fair or not. Hoskins will make no one forget about Johnny Bench any time soon, but he does an adequate job there. He also has no backup on the team and has essentially caught every inning this year. Not a lot of catchers are asked to do this. Ryle pitchers do not lose 12-15 strikes per game because of him. No way, no how. He has a very strong arm and has thrown out numerous runners this year. I'll give you that overall he probably is average defensively, but he's had a great hitting year for Ryle and has come up with clutch hits time and time again. When all is said and done he very well may not be the best choice for POY, but he's certainly worthy of being in the discussion at this point in the season.

[cooperstown]

Totally agreed. Well the same exact thing can be said about Pugh. Everytime I've seen him in the field it doesnt look to good. Dont get me wrong the kid is probably one of the best hitters in NKY. Awesome hitter. But his defense is lacking big time.

 

And, again, defense is not a major component for POY consideration. It simply isn't. And for the very reason that you make in your post - you've seen Pugh a couple of times. Not much on which to base a real evaluation. Perhaps you've caught a bad game or two. ALL catchers have them. I've seen Pugh catch a lot of games. Again, he's not a clone of Johnny Bench either, but he's a good defensive catcher. Certainly above average.

[Clyde]

Not just "our" tendency though - apparently the same criteria is used by the people who make the actual decisions. And, to some extent, I can understand that. It really would be almost impossible to see enough games to know who are the truly elite defensive players vs. the ones that are just plain ol' good.

 

I agree. However, its also impossible to look at offensive stats . The only difference is you can quantify your argument.

[theshack13]

And, again, defense is not a major component for POY consideration. It simply isn't. And for the very reason that you make in your post - you've seen Pugh a couple of times. Not much on which to base a real evaluation. Perhaps you've caught a bad game or two. ALL catchers have them. I've seen Pugh catch a lot of games. Again, he's not a clone of Johnny Bench either, but he's a good defensive catcher. Certainly above average.

 

Ive seen him play in about 6 to 7 games this year. About 5 of them were at 1st base. Thats the area he needs improvement. He's a above average catcher I'd say.

[cooperstown]

I agree. However, its also impossible to look at offensive stats . The only difference is you can quantify your argument.

 

How so?

 

It is the fact that offensive/pitching stats are very much quantifiable that make it so easy to use as the basis for such an award by people that just aren't able to get out and see all the potential candidates on a regular basis. Hard to quantify a person's defensive value with stats. You really do have to see them play regularly.

[Clyde]

How so?

 

It is the fact that offensive/pitching stats are very much quantifiable that make it so easy to use as the basis for such an award by people that just aren't able to get out and see all the potential candidates on a regular basis. Hard to quantify a person's defensive value with stats. You really do have to see them play regularly.

 

It makes it easy but it doesn't make it right. You have to factor in competition level as well. Otherwise, you just set up a spreadsheet giving points for rank in avg/runs/HRs/RBIs/SB/etc.

[cooperstown]

Ive seen him play in about 6 to 7 games this year. About 5 of them were at 1st base. Thats the area he needs improvement. He's a above average catcher I'd say.

 

Well that may be so. I can't really say, as I haven't seen him there much. But keep in mind that 1B is not his regular position and he's being asked to play there so Parker Ryle has a spot to play. Pugh's spent the past few years catching and playing some OF and has not had much time at 1B. Though it's one of the easier positions to learn, there's still a learning curve.

[theshack13]

Well that may be so. I can't really say, as I haven't seen him there much. But keep in mind that 1B is not his regular position and he's being asked to play there so Parker Ryle has a spot to play. Pugh's spent the past few years catching and playing some OF and has not had much time at 1B. Though it's one of the easier positions to learn, there's still a learning curve.

 

I follow you Coop. Im just saying what I saw. He's a good catcher and a great hitter. I just wouldnt put him at the top of my POY voting right now. Nor Hoskins. They are both definately worthy of being in the discussion but im not too sure if they'll win it.

[cooperstown]

It makes it easy but it doesn't make it right. You have to factor in competition level as well. Otherwise, you just set up a spreadsheet giving points for rank in avg/runs/HRs/RBIs/SB/etc.

 

I don't disagree with this at all, but it's just not possible to become that familiar with so many different players. As far as competition, I think that unless you are talking about a player on a team that clearly is playing a step down in competition (i.e., Calvary, Heritage, Silver Grove, Dayton, etc..), you simply assume that the larger schools (Ryle, CCH, HC, Dixie, Conner, Boone, etc) are generally all playing the same competition. I mean, seriously, if you're going to start breaking down who built their stats in games against weaker competition, then you have to start considering things like who they batted against from the bigger teams, who the scorekeepers are, and on and on. At the high school level, there just isn't a truly fair system.

[cooperstown]

I follow you Coop. Im just saying what I saw. He's a good catcher and a great hitter. I just wouldnt put him at the top of my POY voting right now. Nor Hoskins. They are both definately worthy of being in the discussion but im not too sure if they'll win it.

 

Nor am I. I just don't think Hoskins should be eliminated based on his defense, which I agree is probably somewhere in the average range. His hitting, however, has been anything but average.

[theshack13]

Nor am I. I just don't think Hoskins should be eliminated based on his defense, which I agree is probably somewhere in the average range. His hitting, however, has been anything but average.

 

Agreed.

[Clyde]

I don't disagree with this at all, but it's just not possible to become that familiar with so many different players. As far as competition, I think that unless you are talking about a player on a team that clearly is playing a step down in competition (i.e., Calvary, Heritage, Silver Grove, Dayton, etc..), you simply assume that the larger schools (Ryle, CCH, HC, Dixie, Conner, Boone, etc) are generally all playing the same competition. I mean, seriously, if you're going to start breaking down who built their stats in games against weaker competition, then you have to start considering things like who they batted against from the bigger teams, who the scorekeepers are, and on and on. At the high school level, there just isn't a truly fair system.

 

Right. I agree. You point out the flaw in the system and I fully realize its the best we've got.

 

Hunter Jones, though, would throw a wrench into the "competition" argument had he been here.