Snap infraction led to score

[sports fan]

Apples and Oranges..........

 

Apples and other apples, IMO.

[DragonFire]

I just can't believe that Redman and the kid both told bald-faced lies in the paper about it. You know whether the ball slipped out or not, especially if you're the player. And I mean claims that it wasn't a designed play when it clearly was considering that: A) The players carried out the fake, from blocking to a fake handoff and everything, and B) No player, including the QB who'd surely know that he didn't have the ball, dove for the ball on the ground. How many times do you see a fumbled snap where literally no one would have dove for the ball?

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

I don't know that you can jump to that conclusion...it might seem apparent that the play was run intentionally, but, for example, I can think of two or three instances where I've seen players who didn't realize that fumbles had occurred...complete with a QB who was stuck in a "deer in the headlights" reaction.

 

Although things would certainly appear to point at an intentional unsportsmanlike playcall, you can't go claiming that the coach and player had "bold-face lied" as if it were a definite fact.

[Hatz]

Sounds like Sammy Burke.

 

Close. It was Ken Cutrer our Freshman coach. Just as insane as Sam without the sarcasm. :lol:

[TIGER DAD]

Is there a video somewhere of this play on the internet??

[DragonFire]

I don't know that you can jump to that conclusion...it might seem apparent that the play was run intentionally, but, for example, I can think of two or three instances where I've seen players who didn't realize that fumbles had occurred...complete with a QB who was stuck in a "deer in the headlights" reaction.

 

Although things would certainly appear to point at an intentional unsportsmanlike playcall, you can't go claiming that the coach and player had "bold-face lied" as if it were a definite fact.

 

Have you seen the video of it? The player never dropped the ball. What would you call it when the guy who would know, the player, claims he dropped the ball on the ground when it's clear he didn't?

 

Furthermore, the QB didn't have a deer in the headlights look. He acted as if he had the ball, turned, faked the handoff to a running back running to the right. That running back took several steps and then turned around to watch the play develop. There's absolutely nothing on the video to make you believe it was anything but an intentional play. The center fakesnapped the ball, and then stood there like a stone until everyone had moved to the right. He held the ball between his legs for the entire time.

 

If you believe there's doubt that Redman lied, you couldn't possibly believe that the player didn't lie once you saw the video. There's simply no way to go from him saying he dropped it and picked it up to what you see on the video.

[DragonFire]

For those that want to see the video, Pete W posted it in the game thread:

 

There's no doubt from that video what happened.

[CatsCatsCats]

No. The Center held the ball at the full extension of his snap and the QB faked sweep with the backs around the right end. The right guard took the ball from the center's fully extended snap and carried for a big gain around the left end.

 

I called a play like this once only we had our wing come in and get it, I don't know if that's legal but the refs didn't say anything to me.

 

As for the center-sneak, I can't believe Male even thought that was legal, and how the officials allowed that to stand.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

I wasn't speaking about what happened in the Male/Manual game when I referred to the "deer in the headlights" reaction. For the record, I think it does look like the play was more likely to have been planned to go as it did, but I can't prove that. What I was trying to say was, regardless of the situation and no matter how apparent things may seem, unless you were directly involved in the situation (in on the play-call or in the huddle) I don't think you can go laying claims of lying against those involved.

 

As we live in an "innocent until proven guilty" society, I think things should be left as such. Were you to have prefaced your statement with "in my opinion" or "I think", it would be a little different, but you made a statement of fact...a fact that you cannot prove.

[jrjohnson]

After seeing the video, I would have to say both the coach and the player flat out lied. There was no fumble and there is no way I can be convinced that this was not a designed play the way it was ran.

[DragonFire]

I wasn't speaking about what happened in the Male/Manual game when I referred to the "deer in the headlights" reaction. For the record, I think it does look like the play was more likely to have been planned to go as it did, but I can't prove that. What I was trying to say was, regardless of the situation and no matter how apparent things may seem, unless you were directly involved in the situation (in on the play-call or in the huddle) I don't think you can go laying claims of lying against those involved.

 

As we live in an "innocent until proven guilty" society, I think things should be left as such. Were you to have prefaced your statement with "in my opinion" or "I think", it would be a little different, but you made a statement of fact...a fact that you cannot prove.

 

 

Whatever. The proof is right in front of your eyes. He said he dropped the ball and picked it up. What, you think he simply forgot he didn't drop it?

 

There are many more things that prove someone guilty other than a direct confession or statement by someone that was literally in the situation. Video evidence to the contrary is one of those things, and no one could look at that video and believe anything other than at the very least, the kid lied about dropping the ball. It's clear he lied since he didn't, you know, drop the ball.

[Freebird23]

Whatever. The proof is right in front of your eyes. He said he dropped the ball and picked it up. What, you think he simply forgot he didn't drop it?

 

There are many more things that prove someone guilty other than a direct confession or statement by someone that was literally in the situation. Video evidence to the contrary is one of those things, and no one could look at that video and believe anything other than at the very least, the kid lied about dropping the ball. It's clear he lied since he didn't, you know, drop the ball.

 

Really sad to see a high school at a quality insitution like Louisville Male stoop so low for self amusement... I am confident that Manual will some day in the not too distant future have the last laugh... Time to hang up the splikes Bobby!

 

Speaking of sad, the field is absolutely destroyed. Our team played on that field first game of the season and that turf was awesome. Looks to me like thousands of dollars of damage. Who foots the bill on this one?

[1968isaac]

Following this lengthy discussion and trying to envision what actually happened, after watching the clip, to me, it is clearly a designed play. Watch the left side block down. Absolutely no hesitation by the center and no effort to pick up the football on a previously mentioned fumble. He clearly held it and then took off running. Now whether this is legal or not, I do not know for sure. I would think not legal. As far as the officials go, they do not see everything, we all know that. Sometimes they are equally fooled and do not know for sure what happened and are not sure what to call, so they let it go. We may never know if the coach knew if it was legal or not. Obviously, he would not admit it.

[DragonFire]

Following this lengthy discussion and trying to envision what actually happened, after watching the clip, to me, it is clearly a designed play. Watch the left side block down. Absolutely no hesitation by the center and no effort to pick up the football on a previously mentioned fumble. He clearly held it and then took off running. Now whether this is legal or not, I do not know for sure. I would think not legal. As far as the officials go, they do not see everything, we all know that. Sometimes they are equally fooled and do not know for sure what happened and are not sure what to call, so they let it go. We may never know if the coach knew if it was legal or not. Obviously, he would not admit it.

 

On this point, we cannot make a statement of fact. Clearly he was sensitive enough to it to try to cover it up after the fact. After all, he perpetuated the "fumble" story as well, knowing full well that didn't happen. My hunch is he knew, because otherwise, why lie/change the story? They couldn't have changed it after the fact. If he thought it was legal, I think he would have stuck to his guns. But on that, I am just speculating.

[1968isaac]

On this point, we cannot make a statement of fact. Clearly he was sensitive enough to it to try to cover it up after the fact. After all, he perpetuated the "fumble" story as well, knowing full well that didn't happen. My hunch is he knew, because otherwise, why lie/change the story? They couldn't have changed it after the fact. If he thought it was legal, I think he would have stuck to his guns. But on that, I am just speculating.

 

Agreed.