Horse Collar illegal in HS now...and other rules changes

[sidelinedoc]

Well, up until this rule change the "coaches area" was between the sideline and the "team box". The team box is situated six feet (2 yards) outside the sideline and between the 25 yard lines. The team box was required to be marked, and by inference, I guess the "coaches area" was marked.

 

Now, the team box will still be required, but the six feet (two yards) between the sideline and the team box will be off-limits to everybody but officials while the ball is live.

 

Make sense?

 

Yes, this all makes sense. I am a doctor and I am all for safety. I am also on the sidelines and it is not at all feasible to leave this rule in the hands of the officials. If you (they) are watching the field of play during live play, why and how can this be an enforcable call? I just don't see putting this on the shoulders of the official. Can't there be another way to enforce and keep teams in compliance with this without the officials being burdened?

[FootballisKing]

Should there be any assumed risk in life itself? Can we remove risk from everthing? Should we?

 

The NFL is a watered down version of what football should be. There are equipment changes and head up rules that certainly have made sense over the years. But lets be honest, Football is being watered down to were it going to be touch before long.

 

Does anyone assume PERSONAL liability and acknowledge the risk before participating in anything, or do they need someone to blame.

[offside]

Yes, this all makes sense. I am a doctor and I am all for safety. I am also on the sidelines and it is not at all feasible to leave this rule in the hands of the officials. If you (they) are watching the field of play during live play, why and how can this be an enforcable call? I just don't see putting this on the shoulders of the official. Can't there be another way to enforce and keep teams in compliance with this without the officials being burdened?

 

It's not something an official has to look for. If an official runs into a coach within six feet of the sideline, a flag is thrown. The whole point is to have enough room to work safely (while watching the action on the field). "Advantage" is not a factor.

[FBRULES]

A few officials in games we had last year actually thought the 'horse-collar rule' was a HIGH SCHOOL rule last year (got it called against us twice in JV games last year).

 

That number is probably at or lower the number of coaches who asked for a horse collar to be called during the games this season, along with loss of down on ineligible receiver downfield, the "halo rule", and the guy who said I would never work again because I did not know the 5 yard face mask provision had been removed from the high school rule book. Let's face it. There's a good number of officials and coaches that could not pass a rules test, even an easy one.

 

There's no reason for coaches or anyone to be within at least a yard of the sideline during play and there's no reason for a coach to be on the field ever period unless they are (1) during a charged team timeout or (2) attending to an injured player. Speaking of injury, you don't think Mr. and Mrs. Johnny Player Injured while Close to the Sideline won't sue everyone involved when they get taken out? And now, it's potentially a matter of criminal law not just civil law.

 

When you watch a college or NFL game, there's a reason they are back way off the field when on the sideline, it's because the rule is enforced and officials are downgraded when it's not enforced. When are you downgraded enough you are fired and that's the bottom line. In high school, an official's market, you don't get fired, you just get less than desired games consistently.

 

Several posters on here have commented that they want officials to worry about what happens on the field. I agree. Did they ever happen to the think that the majority of controversial game impacting judgment calls involve the sideline, catch/no catch, in or out of bounds, fumbled recovered before going out of bounds, and the pylon. You cannot see well when you are standing right on top of things. So, I train sideline guys to maintain at least a 6 yard distance when watching down a sideline to make a good judgement. Was he in or out? Have the ball or not? And yet, each time, players, coaches, the water boy, the team doctor, will in many venues sneak up and block the view. I'm telling you and it's an informed voice of twenty years of varsity officiating (there's only one coach in my area a head coach longer), we NEED the sideline to work, so please get back and stay back.

 

I look forward to the day that we have enough talented, in shape, fairly compensated people so that every official who doesn't work hard, know the rules, and have consistent judgment is summarily fired. Some of the comments here make that job harder.

[leatherneck]

A few officials in games we had last year actually thought the 'horse-collar rule' was a HIGH SCHOOL rule last year (got it called against us twice in JV games last year).

 

That number is probably at or lower the number of coaches who asked for a horse collar to be called during the games this season, along with loss of down on ineligible receiver downfield, the "halo rule", and the guy who said I would never work again because I did not know the 5 yard face mask provision had been removed from the high school rule book. Let's face it. There's a good number of officials and coaches that could not pass a rules test, even an easy one.

 

There's no reason for coaches or anyone to be within at least a yard of the sideline during play and there's no reason for a coach to be on the field ever period unless they are (1) during a charged team timeout or (2) attending to an injured player. Speaking of injury, you don't think Mr. and Mrs. Johnny Player Injured while Close to the Sideline won't sue everyone involved when they get taken out? And now, it's potentially a matter of criminal law not just civil law.

 

When you watch a college or NFL game, there's a reason they are back way off the field when on the sideline, it's because the rule is enforced and officials are downgraded when it's not enforced. When are you downgraded enough you are fired and that's the bottom line. In high school, an official's market, you don't get fired, you just get less than desired games consistently.

 

Several posters on here have commented that they want officials to worry about what happens on the field. I agree. Did they ever happen to the think that the majority of controversial game impacting judgment calls involve the sideline, catch/no catch, in or out of bounds, fumbled recovered before going out of bounds, and the pylon. You cannot see well when you are standing right on top of things. So, I train sideline guys to maintain at least a 6 yard distance when watching down a sideline to make a good judgement. Was he in or out? Have the ball or not? And yet, each time, players, coaches, the water boy, the team doctor, will in many venues sneak up and block the view. I'm telling you and it's an informed voice of twenty years of varsity officiating (there's only one coach in my area a head coach longer), we NEED the sideline to work, so please get back and stay back.

 

I look forward to the day that we have enough talented, in shape, fairly compensated people so that every official who doesn't work hard, know the rules, and have consistent judgment is summarily fired. Some of the comments here make that job harder.

 

Fantastic post FBRULES. :thumb::thumb:

[theguru]

I second the motion, fantastic post FBR.

[sidelinedoc]

FBR, you are very articulate and informative. My biggest concern was regarding the officials trying to maintain field vision and manage the new rule. You explained how it is to be enforced, my only issue is over aggressive officials that are quick to throw the flag for either the sideline warning or a penalty. I know, it happened to us (Raceland) last year. I am just concerned about over zealous officials quick to impress their assigning secretary or show the coaches their authority. I also want to point out I am not saying all officials do this, most are very good at what they do. Just remember the old saying, one bad apple spoils the bunch. I think most, including me, are concerned about the bad apples.

Edited February 18, 2009 by sidelinedoc
Spelling

[SEMPERFIFALCON]

One pet peeve of mine is when you see small children on the sideline playing around and not paying any attention to what's going on around them. Monroe Co. has always been bad for this (actually got a little better this year), and I always hold my breath every time a play gets pushed to the sideline for fear they'll get hit, it could be devastating for a child that small to get hit or landed on...

[Blackshirts]

Does this count managers or players? Because it is hard to believe that there were 1000 girls participating in football, as in all geared up.

 

The horse collar rule is a good rule but I worry about it on the high school level, because so many times it will be called when it is a close call, much like how a clipping penalty is almost a given when anyone is hit near the side, yet it has to be between the numbers but it is always called regardless. I think it will be another judgement call that official will get yelled at over.

 

I agree:thumb:

[Blackshirts]

One pet peeve of mine is when you see small children on the sideline playing around and not paying any attention to what's going on around them. Monroe Co. has always been bad for this (actually got a little better this year), and I always hold my breath every time a play gets pushed to the sideline for fear they'll get hit, it could be devastating for a child that small to get hit or landed on...

 

SEMPER FI!

[leatherneck]

First of all, the Horse - Collar rule was instituted in the NFL because of million dollar skill players getting hurt. Will high school start instituting rules like the NFL to protect the QB's? There is an assumed risk associated with playing football. If we continue to try to remove all risk...would we have soccer?

 

As far as the coaches boxes. I honestly have no problem with that. My problem is with enforcement. Sideline "A" gets a by the book official and sideline "B" gets someone that is not a stickler on that rule. If sideline "B" is not warned or not moved back, then they gain an unfair advantage over "A". If "A" argues he could get an unsportsmanlike penalty and it snowball from there. The officials must be consistent in enforcing this rule. I was around several instances last year where this happened. It should not take someone out of their game, but being human it can.

 

 

Can't the same be said for almost every rule in the game?

[JIM SEYMOUR # 85]

A few officials in games we had last year actually thought the 'horse-collar rule' was a HIGH SCHOOL rule last year (got it called against us twice in JV games last year).

 

That number is probably at or lower the number of coaches who asked for a horse collar to be called during the games this season, along with loss of down on ineligible receiver downfield, the "halo rule", and the guy who said I would never work again because I did not know the 5 yard face mask provision had been removed from the high school rule book. Let's face it. There's a good number of officials and coaches that could not pass a rules test, even an easy one.

 

There's no reason for coaches or anyone to be within at least a yard of the sideline during play and there's no reason for a coach to be on the field ever period unless they are (1) during a charged team timeout or (2) attending to an injured player. Speaking of injury, you don't think Mr. and Mrs. Johnny Player Injured while Close to the Sideline won't sue everyone involved when they get taken out? And now, it's potentially a matter of criminal law not just civil law.

 

When you watch a college or NFL game, there's a reason they are back way off the field when on the sideline, it's because the rule is enforced and officials are downgraded when it's not enforced. When are you downgraded enough you are fired and that's the bottom line. In high school, an official's market, you don't get fired, you just get less than desired games

consistently.

 

Several posters on here have commented that they want officials to worry about what happens on the field. I agree. Did they ever happen to the think that the majority of controversial game impacting judgment calls involve the sideline, catch/no catch, in or out of bounds, fumbled recovered before going out of bounds, and the pylon. You cannot see well when you are standing right on top of things. So, I train sideline guys to maintain at least a 6 yard distance when watching down a sideline to make a good judgement. Was he in or out? Have the ball or not? And yet, each time, players, coaches, the water boy, the team doctor, will in many venues sneak up and block the view. I'm telling you and it's an informed voice of twenty years of varsity officiating (there's only one coach in my area a head coach longer), we NEED the sideline to work, so please get back and stay back.

 

I look forward to the day that we have enough talented, in shape, fairly compensated people so that every official who doesn't work hard, know the rules, and have consistent judgment is summarily fired. Some of the comments here make that job harder.

 

I concur with G and LN - outstanding post. My thoughts exactly. Have been 'simmering" since reading many of the comments from those who clearly do not understand nor appreciate the points you made. The Sideline is the "office and work space" for those wing officials. It belongs to them - not the Coaches or others affiliated with a team. The only shame - is that the sideline rules were not enforced more uniformly from officiating crew to crew. Saw some incredible lack of control during the State Championship GAmes.

 

Anyway -- thank you for all that you do and all that you said.:thumb:

[Covercorner]

There's no doubt that the letter of the rule will be virtually unenforceable in some places. So, I'll have to work my magic with the coach on my sideline.

If he's able to do what he can to keep his "non-essential" players out of his own way, I'll probably not be too critical of him being one or one & a half yards back instead of the full two yards as required.

 

It's in both of our best interests to make it work. I'll stay out of his way, if he'll stay out of mine.

 

Of course, if he's a jerk about it, I can be too.

 

I should add that I'm not inclined to compromise at a "spacious" venue. Again, this is a mutually beneficial rule.

 

What I was getting at. I've been in places where the box was marked less than two yards from the sideline, and others where a rock filled ditch was less than two yards from the marked box.

[RNCSportsaholic]

I understand what everyone is saying, the officals need room to work, I get that part. What I don't understand is why 2 coaches can not be in the coaching box. OC or DC and the head coach? I think everyone else should be forced to stay back, but not allowing any coaches within 6 feet of the field is going to cause more delay of games, illegal subs, and basically make the game drag out longer than it should. I may be wrong but I think by not allowing coaches in the box will cause more problems than it will defeat. It's just my opinion.

[kissinger]

Yes, this all makes sense. I am a doctor and I am all for safety. I am also on the sidelines and it is not at all feasible to leave this rule in the hands of the officials. If you (they) are watching the field of play during live play, why and how can this be an enforcable call? I just don't see putting this on the shoulders of the official. Can't there be another way to enforce and keep teams in compliance with this without the officials being burdened?

 

With due respect doctor, you couldn't be more wrong. Compared to the old rule, the only change is simple. Now the three permitted coaches from last year must now also be in the coaches box when the ball is alive. So arguments about space, site lines, everything else, are just smoke screens. If there was room for the old rule, there is room for 3 more people. And I suspect the officials will be held very accountable for making sure the rule is observed.