Horse Collar illegal in HS now...and other rules changes

[Under the Lights]

I think most posters here are missing the point about eliminating the "coaches area". And, really, I'm only addressing those of you who are coaches because I can't understand why fans in the bleachers should care one iota about this.

 

1. This is an improvement in safety for BOTH officials and coaches. As a side effect, it will improve officiating by allowing sideline officials to focus on the game action without having to keep an eye out for a coach with his toes (formerly legally) on the boundary line.

 

2. It is obvious that officials will have to communicate and work with the coaches on their sideline. Actually, the better officials do this anyway. It's never a good idea for officials to be "ticky-tacky" with flags or warnings or unproductive bluster in any situation. And the rule will NOT prevent coaches from communicating with their players between downs. Simply, they'll just take a couple steps back a second or two before the snap. And try to stay there :taz:.

 

3. I'm sure the new rule will be unevenly applied in JV, Frosh and Middle School games, just like all other rules are unevenly applied there. You can't become a varsity coach or official without getting the mistakes out of your system at the lower levels.

 

4. Nobody is suggesting that Highlands, or Eminence, or Dayton, or any other school with space issues will need to spend taxpayer money to change their stadium configurations. Obviously, the better officials will strike a workable compromise with their coaches when space is an issue.

 

5. This will allow the Guru to take better pictures. He seems to always catch me yawning or scratching my backside...

 

I don't mind the rule, it has been a long time coming IMO. However, with more and more offenses going to the spread hurry up sets it could have some unforeseen complications. For example, how do the defensive coaches know when the ball will be snapped? Offenses have the luxury of changing plays, adjusting to defensive alignment presnap, etc., shouldn't the D be afforded the same opportunity?

 

My hope is that this will be applied with some degree of wisdom. If the offense goes to a quick "snap" look and then stands up and looks to the sidelines, the defensive coaches should be allowed to re-enter the box. In addition, if the offense does "quick snap" there should not be a penalty on the defensive coaches. Any other way and IMO you are putting one side of the ball at a disadvantage.

 

As far as the media, they don't exist without the game and get no consideration in my book. Surely we aren't considering changing how the game is coached/played so that they have a clear line of sight to take pictures? I always thought that was part of the "art" of being a photographer.

[offside]

What good would that do though, if they find out that the visiting team only has 2 feet to work with about 45 minutes prior to the game?

 

We'll work it out. Coaches and Officials are reasonable people.:puke:

[offside]

I don't mind the rule, it has been a long time coming IMO. However, with more and more offenses going to the spread hurry up sets it could have some unforeseen complications. For example, how do the defensive coaches know when the ball will be snapped? Offenses have the luxury of changing plays, adjusting to defensive alignment presnap, etc., shouldn't the D be afforded the same opportunity?

 

My hope is that this will be applied with some degree of wisdom. If the offense goes to a quick "snap" look and then stands up and looks to the sidelines, the defensive coaches should be allowed to re-enter the box. In addition, if the offense does "quick snap" there should not be a penalty on the defensive coaches. Any other way and IMO you are putting one side of the ball at a disadvantage.

 

As far as the media, they don't exist without the game and get no consideration in my book. Surely we aren't considering changing how the game is coached/played so that they have a clear line of sight to take pictures? I always thought that was part of the "art" of being a photographer.

 

It's the same rule as college football. Coaches simply make their call and move back at the snap. Logically, pre-snap adjustments happen before the snap. Don't panic.

 

Media are already outside the restraining lines (2 yards off the sideline) and outside the team boxes. I think the Guru was simply applauding the new rule as a good thing from his perspective.

[3wishes]

We'll work it out. Coaches and Officials are reasonable people.:puke:

 

I'm just asking what resolution could be made other than breaking the rules and getting into the box?

[barrel]

I got flagged this past season because I did not get out of the way fo the offical. Under the old rule it was just a sideline warning (in addition to the guy being nice). I would be surprised if there is much difference at all then the way it was. Just if you are up there and you cause an issue for the offical trying to move or come in contact with a play close to the sideline your going to get flagged. If it goes past that then someone is taking it to the letter of the law.

[offside]

I'm just asking what resolution could be made other than breaking the rules and getting into the box?

 

There's no doubt that the letter of the rule will be virtually unenforceable in some places. So, I'll have to work my magic with the coach on my sideline.

 

If he's able to do what he can to keep his "non-essential" players out of his own way, I'll probably not be too critical of him being one or one & a half yards back instead of the full two yards as required.

 

It's in both of our best interests to make it work. I'll stay out of his way, if he'll stay out of mine.

 

Of course, if he's a jerk about it, I can be too.

 

I should add that I'm not inclined to compromise at a "spacious" venue. Again, this is a mutually beneficial rule.

[3wishes]

offside, is it a rule that the home team mark the sideline with paint where the coaches box is?

[Under the Lights]

It's the same rule as college football. Coaches simply make their call and move back at the snap. Logically, pre-snap adjustments happen before the snap. Don't panic.

 

Media are already outside the restraining lines (2 yards off the sideline) and outside the team boxes. I think the Guru was simply applauding the new rule as a good thing from his perspective.

 

How many college coaches do you see in the box or on the field during play?

 

If you don't know when the snap will be, when do you know to move back? If the offense gives the impression of a snap do you move back? If not, then what if they do actually snap it, will coaches be flagged? If the coach is making pre snap adjustments and the offense goes with a hurry up quick snap will he be flagged?

 

I guess my point is that you know and I know that this won't be an issue provided that this isn't a "letter of the law" enforcement. However, I'm concerned over the non uniform manner that this is likely to be applied from crew to crew. Hopefully good judgement will prevail all around.

[offside]

offside, is it a rule that the home team mark the sideline with paint where the coaches box is?

 

Well, up until this rule change the "coaches area" was between the sideline and the "team box". The team box is situated six feet (2 yards) outside the sideline and between the 25 yard lines. The team box was required to be marked, and by inference, I guess the "coaches area" was marked.

 

Now, the team box will still be required, but the six feet (two yards) between the sideline and the team box will be off-limits to everybody but officials while the ball is live.

 

Make sense?

[CoachBuckett]

I think most posters here are missing the point about eliminating the "coaches area". And, really, I'm only addressing those of you who are coaches because I can't understand why fans in the bleachers should care one iota about this.

 

1. This is an improvement in safety for BOTH officials and coaches. As a side effect, it will improve officiating by allowing sideline officials to focus on the game action without having to keep an eye out for a coach with his toes (formerly legally) on the boundary line.

 

2. It is obvious that officials will have to communicate and work with the coaches on their sideline. Actually, the better officials do this anyway. It's never a good idea for officials to be "ticky-tacky" with flags or warnings or unproductive bluster in any situation. And the rule will NOT prevent coaches from communicating with their players between downs. Simply, they'll just take a couple steps back a second or two before the snap. And try to stay there :taz:.

 

3. I'm sure the new rule will be unevenly applied in JV, Frosh and Middle School games, just like all other rules are unevenly applied there. You can't become a varsity coach or official without getting the mistakes out of your system at the lower levels.

 

4. Nobody is suggesting that Highlands, or Eminence, or Dayton, or any other school with space issues will need to spend taxpayer money to change their stadium configurations. Obviously, the better officials will strike a workable compromise with their coaches when space is an issue.

 

5. This will allow the Guru to take better pictures. He seems to always catch me yawning or scratching my backside...

 

I have no issue with the ule. I agree with the fact it is what is best for safety. I was stating it is tough sometimes due to space issues at some venues.

[offside]

How many college coaches do you see in the box or on the field during play?

 

If you don't know when the snap will be, when do you know to move back? If the offense gives the impression of a snap do you move back? If not, then what if they do actually snap it, will coaches be flagged? If the coach is making pre snap adjustments and the offense goes with a hurry up quick snap will he be flagged?

 

I guess my point is that you know and I know that this won't be an issue provided that this isn't a "letter of the law" enforcement. However, I'm concerned over the non uniform manner that this is likely to be applied from crew to crew. Hopefully good judgement will prevail all around.

 

College coaches get the heck out of the way at the snap. Typically, college head coaches do not signal in the plays themselves, so it's usually an assistant coach who is scared to get a penalty called on him and is motivated to get back in a hurry. We're still waiting for the language of the new NFHS rule, but here's the sideline interference foul for NCAA:

 

Under NCAA rules, if an official runs into a coach between the sideline and the team box while the ball is live, it is a 5 yard penalty for sideline interference on the first two occasions, and a 15 yard penalty for third and subsequent infractions.

 

There are no warnings.

 

Typically, I'll ask the OC or DC, or whoever is in charge of signalling his team, to stand on the offensive side of the LOS (basically, on the "upfield" side). I don't care how long he stands there, as long as he gets out of my way before I step in THAT direction. If he crowds me, I rarely have to say much more than "make your call and please step back coach".

 

I suspect if your staff communicates well with your sideline official, you won't have any problems.

Edited February 18, 2009 by offside

[offside]

I have no issue with the ule. I agree with the fact it is what is best for safety. I was stating it is tough sometimes due to space issues at some venues.

 

I agree with you, coach. Please see post 36.

[Rocketfan13]

At first glance the sideline rule looks like it is going to be a pain to deal with. Most coaches are already coaching from the field and then backing up 2 yards(or more) to get back into the coaches box.

 

I would hope all officials will work with the coaches and vice/versa to allow/remind them to get back as soon as the play starts. My feeling is that most officials do not want to make this call and will work with the coaches.

[FootballisKing]

First of all, the Horse - Collar rule was instituted in the NFL because of million dollar skill players getting hurt. Will high school start instituting rules like the NFL to protect the QB's? There is an assumed risk associated with playing football. If we continue to try to remove all risk...would we have soccer?

 

As far as the coaches boxes. I honestly have no problem with that. My problem is with enforcement. Sideline "A" gets a by the book official and sideline "B" gets someone that is not a stickler on that rule. If sideline "B" is not warned or not moved back, then they gain an unfair advantage over "A". If "A" argues he could get an unsportsmanlike penalty and it snowball from there. The officials must be consistent in enforcing this rule. I was around several instances last year where this happened. It should not take someone out of their game, but being human it can.

[barrel]

I am not going to name the HS but at one time a very well know HS use to teach the horse collar as part of their pass coverage. It increases the risk of an ankle injury or worse. There should not be an issue about making the game safer. As far as if you remove the risk it becoming soccer goes...soccer can be a dangerous sport. It is a contact sport. It just happens that most soccer teams, games, players that people here in the US is not on par with what the sport is. Its liek watching another country play football. Its not the same animal but it does involve the same risks.