When will Louisville 6A compete with the big 3?

[RowdyRedRam]

I have the same question RRR. What you are describing normally signals a problem with the coaching staff. What is the issue at Manual causing several players to drop out of the football program?

Not really, Manual is a more of an academic draw than an athletic draw. In other words the reason most kids are there is not football. When you account in factors distance from home (Manual is a long drive for most it's students, very few live near the school), academic difficulties, and other normal factors (cars jobs etc) they don't have the retaining power of an X or T that has a significantly stronger cultural connection with football.

 

(I am curious as to what the actual rate of retaining players is at X and T. If you start at 100 and are down to 30 by senior year, it is still better than starting at 40 and ending at 12 even though the rate is the same. I don't know what the number are but I think this is something to consider)

 

Manual also has no resides area, meaning it has no direct feeder program. Unless you are a brother of or a child of an alumni it is unlikely that you grow up thinking about playing for Manual. I think those sort of connections keep kids in a program through the tough years (little playing time, deep in the depth chart). I also think that it is tougher in a city high school to keep kids interested in high school activities simply for the fact that kids have so many options to do things outside of the school environment. In small counties and towns there isn't much to do other than high school activities. The difference that T and X have is that football is so important to that community that it is a still a very strong interest for so many of the players.

 

There are no teams in Louisville that retain as well as X and T. And I don't think Manual has a "problem" other than normal circumstances. All I was saying is that the gap that Manual needs to overcome to beat these teams is to have consistency across the board. In order to do that they need to equate the experience and physical maturity of X in all positions.

[Biotech]

Until Manual can clear the hump against X, the Big 4 talk is just annoying to everyone, including Crimson supporters.

 

I think it depends on how you define 'compete.'

 

Manual has been competitve (in games) with Male and Trinity lately, but the matchup with X has been killer. In terms of hardware, no one is competing with Trinity at the moment.

It has been stated before but I feel the key factor for Manual geting over the hump with X is the front line play on both sides of the ball. This is the key and as long as Glaser is the HC it will always be so. T has had difficulty in the regular season game with X due to some kids having to go both ways but not really having had enough playing time or practice time at the second position specifically the D line, hense the domince X has been showing off in the regular season game. T uses the regular season and playoff games very well in so far as pulling the kids together. By the time we play X in the state these kids who are going both ways are ready. 2005 and 2007 are perfect illustrations of what I am saying. Manual has the same issues with X twice a year but until Manual can match the line play I do not see them knocking off X.

[miragesmack]

Not really, Manual is a more of an academic draw than an athletic draw. In other words the reason most kids are there is not football. When you account in factors distance from home (Manual is a long drive for most it's students, very few live near the school), academic difficulties, and other normal factors (cars jobs etc) they don't have the retaining power of an X or T that has a significantly stronger cultural connection with football.

 

(I am curious as to what the actual rate of retaining players is at X and T. If you start at 100 and are down to 30 by senior year, it is still better than starting at 40 and ending at 12 even though the rate is the same. I don't know what the number are but I think this is something to consider)

 

Manual also has no resides area, meaning it has no direct feeder program. Unless you are a brother of or a child of an alumni it is unlikely that you grow up thinking about playing for Manual. I think those sort of connections keep kids in a program through the tough years (little playing time, deep in the depth chart). I also think that it is tougher in a city high school to keep kids interested in high school activities simply for the fact that kids have so many options to do things outside of the school environment. In small counties and towns there isn't much to do other than high school activities. The difference that T and X have is that football is so important to that community that it is a still a very strong interest for so many of the players.

 

There are no teams in Louisville that retain as well as X and T. And I don't think Manual has a "problem" other than normal circumstances. All I was saying is that the gap that Manual needs to overcome to beat these teams is to have consistency across the board. In order to do that they need to equate the experience and physical maturity of X in all positions.

 

 

I think the future is bright for Manual. Being in the catholic system (for the most part) my whole life, I've seen the trend for catholic kids to attend Manual. My daughter's class alone had at least 5 attend Manual that I know of, out of roughly 60 kids, and others may have as well. Her best friend at Mercy has a little brother that will likely go to Manual, though he prefers X. With them it boils down to money, and the unlikely prospect of paying for 3 kids in catholic high school next year before the oldest graduates. They feel he'll get the same strong education as his older sisiters, and it will be free. Plus he likes it because his sisters have to work to pay half of their tuition, and he figures that money will go to a car now. :thumb:

 

Manual has a strong academic tradition and it makes the decision to go there much easier for those raised in the catholic school system. Many of those students are also strong athletes as well.

[theguru]

Ru, during the Beatty era (2000-2007) the ROCKS have won state championships 6 times, while M and X have 1 apiece. Until they prove that they can consistently beat T when it counts, I still maintain it is the Big 1. Why am I wrong?

 

I don't think wrong is the right way to look at this. I understand T has dominated when it comes to titles, my point is T and X are normally within a touchdown or two of each other and none of the other schools are at that level thus a Big 2.

[SHAMROCK69]

I don't think wrong is the right way to look at this. I understand T has dominated when it comes to titles, my point is T and X are normally within a touchdown or two of each other and none of the other schools are at that level thus a Big 2.

 

I can live with that. As long as we keep bringing home the hardware, Louisville can be the Big__. (fill in the blank)

[Canescat]

It's Trinity and St. X (too close to call year in and year out) and everybody else. I don't think that will ever change.

[ram2003]

It's Trinity and St. X (too close to call year in and year out) and everybody else. I don't think that will ever change.

 

It's certainly fallen into a solid tradition, but change is inevitable. In the 50's, people probably said the same thing about Male and Manual. Now people don't even recognize the fact that Manual won the national championship.

[PepRock01]

It's certainly fallen into a solid tradition, but change is inevitable. In the 50's, people probably said the same thing about Male and Manual. Now people don't even recognize the fact that Manual won the national championship.

 

 

I remember reading the article when Trinity won their first title in '68 stating something along the lines of "The Big 4 have some new competition." The Big 4 at the time being Male, Manual, St. X and Flaget.

[JIM SEYMOUR # 85]

I remember reading the article when Trinity won their first title in '68 stating something along the lines of "The Big 4 have some new competition." The Big 4 at the time being Male, Manual, St. X and Flaget.

 

How right you are. Once upon a time.....the Rocks were the 'whipping boys." AS a result of a whole lot of factors...the "tradition of excellence" was established. I agree with Ru about the "Big 2". Let's tee it up in a few weeks and see how this year shakes out.:ylsuper::ylsuper:

[BuddyBW]

I would go further and say it is the Big 2 with Male a step behind at the present time.

 

As I wrote my last post, I thought this too. My initial thought was in line with yours, in that X and T seemed to have separated themselves a bit but in '06 Male dominated both games against X and took T to the wire (and many would say they should have won that game). They were certainly down last year and were beaten by a couple of Hardin Co. schools in '04 and '05, but I'm not sure I'm ready to count them as down and out right now although I think they're heading that way.

[Park1221]

It has been stated before but I feel the key factor for Manual geting over the hump with X is the front line play on both sides of the ball. This is the key and as long as Glaser is the HC it will always be so. T has had difficulty in the regular season game with X due to some kids having to go both ways but not really having had enough playing time or practice time at the second position specifically the D line, hense the domince X has been showing off in the regular season game. T uses the regular season and playoff games very well in so far as pulling the kids together. By the time we play X in the state these kids who are going both ways are ready. 2005 and 2007 are perfect illustrations of what I am saying. Manual has the same issues with X twice a year but until Manual can match the line play I do not see them knocking off X.

 

Bio,

Very insightful...you're almost on the money. As an X parent/fan, I agree that X's line play has been a bit better than T's in the regular season due to the 2 way linemen T puts on the field. By playoff time, T's guys are conditioned and seasoned to go 4 quarters. I disagree with your criticism of Glaser....X has had their oppurtunties, didn't capitalize, didn't finish, didn't execute...etc, but it wasn't because of coaching. You can Monday morning quaterback 05 and 07 to death but the bottom line is that the Rock players made plays at crunch time when we didn't. Kick a field goal, fake a PAT, don't audible, give it to Duece, etc....who knows what happens if different calls came in from the booth.

We weren't outfoxxed, just outplayed at crucial times. That's football.

Male and Manual will be very tough this year IMO...that being said if X loses to either it will mean X wasn't prepared to play. That will on the coaches because X has too much talent to lose to either. Against T, the talent is roughly equal with T having maybe a couple more marquee players in Superman, Jordan and Messina. Looking forward to it.

[Biotech]

Bio,

Very insightful...you're almost on the money. As an X parent/fan, I agree that X's line play has been a bit better than T's in the regular season due to the 2 way linemen T puts on the field. By playoff time, T's guys are conditioned and seasoned to go 4 quarters. I disagree with your criticism of Glaser....X has had their oppurtunties, didn't capitalize, didn't finish, didn't execute...etc, but it wasn't because of coaching. You can Monday morning quaterback 05 and 07 to death but the bottom line is that the Rock players made plays at crunch time when we didn't. Kick a field goal, fake a PAT, don't audible, give it to Duece, etc....who knows what happens if different calls came in from the booth.

We weren't outfoxxed, just outplayed at crucial times. That's football.

Male and Manual will be very tough this year IMO...that being said if X loses to either it will mean X wasn't prepared to play. That will on the coaches because X has too much talent to lose to either. Against T, the talent is roughly equal with T having maybe a couple more marquee players in Superman, Jordan and Messina. Looking forward to it.

Parkway I was not trying to be critical of Glaser and the staff, just what I have seen from them (X) since I played. I used 2005 and 2007 as the examples not to be rehasing but rather to point out that it has proved out to be the case. You are correct that the out come could have been different had it not been for one play or another. Point being that the X-T regular season game has not been that cloe and that it has been the dominance of the X line play that has made it so. I really don't have a problem with the offensive philosophy as I love the power game it is just that X always seems to peak early and I think it has more to do with the lack of something more added come playoff time( to the O scheme, as the D is always top tier) then something of major change. All I am saying is that to beat an X team today one has to match the line play in order to have a chance. For Manual to really compete with X they must over come this. I will say that the reason Manual has played well against T in past years is that the type of really good players they have year to year is a better match up against our style of play on O, less power more spread the field. Male had it all in 2006 just came up short. Manual I felt had it in 2003 but lost to many kids to the injury bug. I really feel that the only differnce for T has been the style (offense) we play, it just gives us more opportunities to score in close games and we have gotten great at doing that.

[Biotech]

^ Sorry I put Parkway and not Park1221. I lived on Parkway.

[MLB50]

Say what you want but it all boils down to one question. If you had a son and lived in Louisville that had potential to play football at the next level, and financially you could afford to send your kid anywhere, where would you send him? My kid would be at Trinity. The bottom line is that these are kids that have parental support, financial support (most of them), and tradition. The private schools offer a better education, less instability and behaviorial problems within the school, better discipline and the opportunity to participate in sports. Also, most schools have super athletes that excel in multiple sports. For the majority of students at Trinity & St X, they stick to one sport because if they don't, they will be passed by someone who is working year round on one sport.

 

The problem lies in the education offered at public schools. Too many public school coaches have to put up with discipline problems and lack of facilities and/or funding to develop a top-notch program year in and year out. Louisville Male has beaten the odds because they were essentially a private school funded w/ public money for many years. They could pick and choose which students they took and which ones they didn't. During this time period, many parents chose to send their kids to Male because the discipline and education was comparable to private schools. This is NO longer the case. Also, I should note that Pleasure Ridge Park has developed this in baseball and Ballard in basketball. However, looking from a coaches perspective, Coach Miller and Coach Redmon have a reputation of putting players in division 1 schools and work much harder than any private school coach would have too (I know some will disagree with the last statement but it is true.) Coach Renner works extremely hard as well but honestly, he took over a program that had already produced Alan Houston and become a feeder program for division 1 basketball signees.

[YepItsMe]

Say what you want but it all boils down to one question. If you had a son and lived in Louisville that had potential to play football at the next level, and financially you could afford to send your kid anywhere, where would you send him? My kid would be at Trinity. The bottom line is that these are kids that have parental support, financial support (most of them), and tradition. The private schools offer a better education, less instability and behaviorial problems within the school, better discipline and the opportunity to participate in sports. Also, most schools have super athletes that excel in multiple sports. For the majority of students at Trinity & St X, they stick to one sport because if they don't, they will be passed by someone who is working year round on one sport.

 

The problem lies in the education offered at public schools. Too many public school coaches have to put up with discipline problems and lack of facilities and/or funding to develop a top-notch program year in and year out. Louisville Male has beaten the odds because they were essentially a private school funded w/ public money for many years. They could pick and choose which students they took and which ones they didn't. During this time period, many parents chose to send their kids to Male because the discipline and education was comparable to private schools. This is NO longer the case. Also, I should note that Pleasure Ridge Park has developed this in baseball and Ballard in basketball. However, looking from a coaches perspective, Coach Miller and Coach Redmon have a reputation of putting players in division 1 schools and work much harder than any private school coach would have too (I know some will disagree with the last statement but it is true.) Coach Renner works extremely hard as well but honestly, he took over a program that had already produced Alan Houston and become a feeder program for division 1 basketball signees.

 

 

MBL I understand where your coming from but I disagree. If I had to choose, I would pick a school where my son had a chance to play and be successful. If my son was a stand out in other sports I would hope the coaches would understand and he would still be able to compete for a position in the fall. Public vs Private, you can saw what you want about disclipine, better education, funding.....what happen to students wanting to better themselves? No matter where you get your education from its up to the student to do the best he can to recieve a good education. By the way, its the coaches job to get tape and things out for his players to be considered at the college level.