What are the TRUE differences Catholicism / Protestantism

[PepRock01]

I agree 100% with this. It is those misrepresentations that were the reason for my question to Alabama Larry. I once had a person that I considered a friend tell me that I was going to hell because I am a Catholic and Larry's first response in this thread was almost to a letter the reasons that I was given for my eventual dangation. That line of thinking absolutely infuriates me.

 

 

 

 

I laughed out loud when I read that one.

[Hearsay]

I agree 100% with this. It is those misrepresentations that were the reason for my question to Alabama Larry. I once had a person that I considered a friend tell me that I was going to hell because I am a Catholic and Larry's first response in this thread was almost to a letter the reasons that I was given for my eventual dangation. That line of thinking absolutely infuriates me.

 

Larry, I'm going to give you another chance. Your faith is very strong from what I have read and I salute you. I'll give you another chance. If I, or any other Catholic, came to you and wanted to know what I need to do to give myself the best chance of getting into Heaven would it involve converting? You obviously have very strong opinions about what the Catholic Church is doing wrong, do we do enough right to get to Heaven?

 

Let me answer your question with another question. Do you, as a Catholic, believe that you can "do enough right" to earn your way into Heaven?

[rockmom]

Just out of curiosity, Why?

 

"Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law. . . . "

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

 

Another reason that many non-Catholics may not ordinarily receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: "For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died" (1 Cor. 11:29–30).

 

Again, the above is from Catholic.com

 

Even for Catholics, there are strict guidelines for receiving the Eucharist. They include:

 

First, you must be in a state of grace. "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup" (1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement which can never be dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.

 

A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

Out of habit and out of fear of what those around them will think if they do not receive Communion, some Catholics, in a state of mortal sin, choose to go forward and offend God rather than stay in the pew while others receive the Eucharist. The Church’s ancient teaching on this particular matter is expressed in the Didache, an early Christian document written around A.D. 70, which states: "Whosoever is holy [i.e., in a state of sanctifying grace], let him approach. Whosoever is not, let him repent" (Didache 10).

 

Second, you must have been to confession since your last mortal sin. The Didache witnesses to this practice of the early Church. "But first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one" (Didache 14).

 

The 1983 Code of Canon Law indicates that the same requirement applies today. "A person who is conscious of a grave sin is not to . . . receive the body of the Lord without prior sacramental confession unless a grave reason is present and there is no opportunity of confessing; in this case the person is to be mindful of the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, including the intention of confessing as soon as possible" (CIC 916).

 

The requirement for sacramental confession can be dispensed if four conditions are fulfilled: (1) there must be a grave reason to receive Communion (for example, danger of death), (2) it must be physically or morally impossible to go to confession first, (3) the person must already be in a state of grace through perfect contrition, and (4) he must resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

 

Third, you must believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation. "For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself" (1 Cor. 11:29). Transubstantiation means more than the Real Presence. According to transubstantiation, the bread and wine are actually transformed into the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, with only the appearances of bread and wine remaining. This is why, at the Last Supper, Jesus held what appeared to be bread and wine, yet said: "This is my body. . . . This is my blood" (Mark 14:22-24, cf. Luke 22:14-20). If Christ were merely present along side bread and wine, he would have said "This contains my body. . . . This contains my blood," which he did not say.

 

Fourth, you must observe the Eucharistic fast. Canon law states, "One who is to receive the most Holy Eucharist is to abstain from any food or drink, with the exception only of water and medicine, for at least the period of one hour before Holy Communion" (CIC 919 §1). Elderly people, those who are ill, and their caretakers are excused from the Eucharistic fast (CIC 191 §3). Priests and deacons may not dispense one obligated by the Eucharistic fast unless the bishop has expressly granted such power to them (cf. CIC 89).

 

Finally, one must not be under an ecclesiastical censure. Canon law mandates, "Those who are excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion" (CIC 915).

 

Provided they are in a state of grace and have met the above requirements, Catholics should receive the Eucharist frequently (cic 898

[rockmom]

I laughed out loud when I read that one.

 

He had a little help with that one. :lol:

[All Tell]

Let me answer your question with another question. Do you, as a Catholic, believe that you can "do enough right" to earn your way into Heaven?

Yes

 

And I also believe that non-Catholics can as well.

 

I believe that everyone is born worthy of Heaven. It is through the ways we live our lives that our eventual fate is decided.

[rockmom]

Bert says:

 

Heresy was a major fear of the Catholic Church from the 300's through most of the Middle Ages. Numersous heresies arose through those centuries. Arianism was the greatest during the earliest part of that era and was spreading rapidly at that time. Arianism essentially denies the basic Christian understanding of the Trinity that 99% of Christian denominations today believe. Anthanasius is so honored in the Catholic Church due to his leadership in swaying people away from Arianism.

 

There were numerous other heresies during this time period such as: Jesus was human only, not divine; the human body is evil; that murder, adultery, and apostacy cannot be forgive; etc. I think all of us who are of one Christian Denomination would agree that these are views are incorrect but, they did spread throughout Europe and the church was very fearful of these teachings.

 

The church feared that if innocent people heard these teachings and accepted them, they may be doomed to dangnation. Because of this, unfortunately the church decided that force was be needed. The view was, "if the torture of one heretic saves 1,000 souls, the torture is justified." Today we would look at that view as barbaric but 1,000 years ago such a view seemed logical. Keep in mind, 1,000 years ago, Seperation of Church and State did not exist. Church Law and Civil Law were VERY intertwined. If you broke church laws, you in essence broke civil laws.

 

The Catholic Church concluded that these heresies arose due to misinterpretation of the bible. Unfortunately the solution the church came up with was to discourage laity from reading the bible and encourage them to simply learn from their pastor. Today, 99.99999% of Catholics would acknowledge that this was an error of judgement. However, with heresy rising up all over the place, I guess the church concluded no other solution would work.

 

150 years ago at Vatican Council I, the church began to slowly move towards encouraging laity to read and study the bible. At Vatican Council II in the 1960's the church further expressed the importance of bible study. Today if heresy arises, the church simply argues, argues and argues more against it hoping to convince people of that heresy's error.

[Hearsay]

"Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of the oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches with whom we are not yet fully united are ordinarily not admitted to Communion. Eucharistic sharing in exceptional circumstances by other Christians requires permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of canon law. . . . "

Scripture is clear that partaking of the Eucharist is among the highest signs of Christian unity: "Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread" (1 Cor. 10:17). For this reason, it is normally impossible for non-Catholic Christians to receive Holy Communion, for to do so would be to proclaim a unity to exist that, regrettably, does not.

 

Another reason that many non-Catholics may not ordinarily receive Communion is for their own protection, since many reject the doctrine of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Scripture warns that it is very dangerous for one not believing in the Real Presence to receive Communion: "For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died" (1 Cor. 11:29–30).

 

Again, the above is from Catholic.com

 

Even for Catholics, there are strict guidelines for receiving the Eucharist. They include:

 

First, you must be in a state of grace. "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup" (1 Cor. 11:27–28). This is an absolute requirement which can never be dispensed. To receive the Eucharist without sanctifying grace in your soul profanes the Eucharist in the most grievous manner.

 

A mortal sin is any sin whose matter is grave and which has been committed willfully and with knowledge of its seriousness. Grave matter includes, but is not limited to, murder, receiving or participating in an abortion, homosexual acts, having sexual intercourse outside of marriage or in an invalid marriage, and deliberately engaging in impure thoughts (Matt. 5:28–29). Scripture contains lists of mortal sins (for example, 1 Cor. 6:9–10 and Gal. 5:19–21). For further information on what constitutes a mortal sin, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

Out of habit and out of fear of what those around them will think if they do not receive Communion, some Catholics, in a state of mortal sin, choose to go forward and offend God rather than stay in the pew while others receive the Eucharist. The Church’s ancient teaching on this particular matter is expressed in the Didache, an early Christian document written around A.D. 70, which states: "Whosoever is holy [i.e., in a state of sanctifying grace], let him approach. Whosoever is not, let him repent" (Didache 10).

 

Second, you must have been to confession since your last mortal sin. The Didache witnesses to this practice of the early Church. "But first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one" (Didache 14).

 

The 1983 Code of Canon Law indicates that the same requirement applies today. "A person who is conscious of a grave sin is not to . . . receive the body of the Lord without prior sacramental confession unless a grave reason is present and there is no opportunity of confessing; in this case the person is to be mindful of the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, including the intention of confessing as soon as possible" (CIC 916).

 

The requirement for sacramental confession can be dispensed if four conditions are fulfilled: (1) there must be a grave reason to receive Communion (for example, danger of death), (2) it must be physically or morally impossible to go to confession first, (3) the person must already be in a state of grace through perfect contrition, and (4) he must resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

 

Third, you must believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation. "For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself" (1 Cor. 11:29). Transubstantiation means more than the Real Presence. According to transubstantiation, the bread and wine are actually transformed into the actual body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ, with only the appearances of bread and wine remaining. This is why, at the Last Supper, Jesus held what appeared to be bread and wine, yet said: "This is my body. . . . This is my blood" (Mark 14:22-24, cf. Luke 22:14-20). If Christ were merely present along side bread and wine, he would have said "This contains my body. . . . This contains my blood," which he did not say.

 

Fourth, you must observe the Eucharistic fast. Canon law states, "One who is to receive the most Holy Eucharist is to abstain from any food or drink, with the exception only of water and medicine, for at least the period of one hour before Holy Communion" (CIC 919 §1). Elderly people, those who are ill, and their caretakers are excused from the Eucharistic fast (CIC 191 §3). Priests and deacons may not dispense one obligated by the Eucharistic fast unless the bishop has expressly granted such power to them (cf. CIC 89).

 

Finally, one must not be under an ecclesiastical censure. Canon law mandates, "Those who are excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to Holy Communion" (CIC 915).

 

Provided they are in a state of grace and have met the above requirements, Catholics should receive the Eucharist frequently (cic 898

 

That is one of the most fascinating things I have ever read.

 

But I would ask you to read it carefully, and then tell me: Which denomination is being exclusionary and intolerant?

[rockmom]

That is one of the most fascinating things I have ever read.

 

But I would ask you to read it carefully, and then tell me: Which denomination is being exclusionary and intolerant?

 

I'm not sure I feel it's exclusionary when the sacredness of the Eucharist is in question. If one does not believe in transsubstantiation and the presence of Christ in that host, wouldn't it be blasphemous to distribute Him to a non-believer? It's the central part of our liturgy. It's not an amenity, it's THE reason we gather.

 

Also, I know many non-Catholics who, while not receiving Communion, do come forward in the line and accept a blessing by the Priest, but do not partake of the Eucharist.

[Hearsay]

Yes

 

And I also believe that non-Catholics can as well.

 

I believe that everyone is born worthy of Heaven. It is through the ways we live our lives that our eventual fate is decided.

 

Then you have just enunciated, according to your understanding of Catholic beliefs (and I am not sure that you are accurate about your Church's teaching here), two of perhaps the primary principal differences between Catholics and Protestants:

 

1. You believe that you can "earn" your way into Heaven. I do not. I think I state my faith's beliefs clearly when I tell you that I believe that there is no amount of good works you can do that will get you into Heaven, and that the ONLY way you can achieve salvation and enter into Heaven is by confessing your faith in Jesus Christ and submitting your life to Him. I think I state my faith's doctrine clearly when I state that this happens only once, at an identifiable moment in time, and that it cannot be un-done. This is why my faith believes that there can be a true death-bed conversion of a lifelong axe-murderer.

 

2. You believe that "everyone is born worthy of Heaven." I do not. I believe I state my faith's doctrine clearly when I state that we believe that because of the original Fall from grace, we are all born into sin and are destined for eternal dagnation unless we act to turn our lives over to Christ.

[Hearsay]

I'm not sure I feel it's exclusionary when the sacredness of the Eucharist is in question. If one does not believe in transsubstantiation and the presence of Christ in that host, wouldn't it be blasphemous to distribute Him to a non-believer? It's the central part of our liturgy. It's not an amenity, it's THE reason we gather.

 

Also, I know many non-Catholics who, while not receiving Communion, do come forward in the line and accept a blessing by the Priest, but do not partake of the Eucharist.

 

That is what I do and I am glad to do it.

 

The exclusionary practice is to deny your most central sacrament, communion, to a person you acknowledge to be a Christian, merely because that person believes that the bread and the wine are symbolic of Christ's blood and flesh rather than literal.

[All Tell]

So your faith believes that an infant or child below the age of reason who dies is danged? Talk about intolerant and exclusionary.

 

I've used this illustration before. A believer kills a gay man because he views homosexuality as an abomination before God. This person as a young adult sincerely accepted Jesus as their personal saviour and his entire defense is that he did it because he believes the gay man's lifestyle was sinful. If as you say it happens only once and can't be undone according to your faith will this man still go to Heaven?

 

I've answered your question will you answer mine? According to your faith will a devout Catholic go to Heaven?

[NEXT]

First I want to thank everyone who has posted and and offered some insight.

 

I want to add that I was raised in a Baptist(Freewill and Southern) school and church setting my entire life aside from going to a Pentecostal private school for 2 years of that time, then public for the 8-12th grades.

 

I will be reading this over and over again and looking at the websites that have been posted so that I can further understand the differences.

 

I was having a conversation the other night with some people and religion was the topic and the thing that made me post this question was some of these people I thought were highly intelligent had a view of the Catholic Church on par with that of some other denominations/beliefs that were non too flattering.

[All Tell]

That is what I do and I am glad to do it.

 

The exclusionary practice is to deny your most central sacrament, communion, to a person you acknowledge to be a Christian, merely because that person believes that the bread and the wine are symbolic of Christ's blood and flesh rather than literal.

And yet your faith would exclude how many from being in the presence of God when they die?

 

Without putting to fine a point on it, simply by NOT believing in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine you are not worthy of recieving it, just like by your faith not accepting Christ makes you unworthy of Heaven.

[NEXT]

To add to the question that has been asked -

 

Do most Catholics believe that a devout Protestant will go to heaven?

 

Do most Protestants believe that a devout Catholic will go to heaven?

 

What about -

 

Anglicanism

 

Eastern Orthodox Churches

 

Oriental Orthodox Churches

 

Assyrian Church of the East

 

Latter-day Saints

 

Jehovah's Witnesses

[Hearsay]

So your faith believes that an infant or child below the age of reason who dies is danged? Talk about intolerant and exclusionary.

 

I've used this illustration before. A believer kills a gay man because he views homosexuality as an abomination before God. This person as a young adult sincerely accepted Jesus as their personal saviour and his entire defense is that he did it because he believes the gay man's lifestyle was sinful. If as you say it happens only once and can't be undone according to your faith will this man still go to Heaven?

 

I've answered your question will you answer mine? According to your faith will a devout Catholic go to Heaven?

 

I want to preface my response (again) with the statement that I do not believe you have correctly articulated Catholic doctrine.

 

However, in answer to your question, if the Catholic person only believes what you have articulated in Post #110 as the belief then, no, I do not believe that person will be going to Heaven.

 

I have a great many Catholic friends (there is a large Catholic community here in Bardstown) that have expressed to me that they believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and that they have turned their lives over to Him. They practice all of the other Catholic rites and sacraments as well. I believe they will be going to Heaven. In fact, I believe the vast majority of Catholics believe and practice this.

 

Salvation is not dependent upon whether one is Catholic, Baptist, Episcopal, sprinkled, dunked, divorced, black, white, male, female, going to church or living out in the woods. You either recognize Christ as your Lord and Saviour and have asked Him to come into your life, or you have not. The rest is all minor doctrine.

 

Regarding your initial query about infant baptism, you yourself state that "everyone is born worthy of Heaven." Not only does that contradict known Catholic views about Original Sin, but if everyone is born worthy of Heaven, why would a deceased infant need to be baptised?