And yet your faith would exclude how many from being in the presence of God when they die?

 

Without putting to fine a point on it, simply by NOT believing in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine you are not worthy of recieving it, just like by your faith not accepting Christ makes you unworthy of Heaven.

Fair enough.

 

I have no desire to engage in a Holy War, but you engaged the question (even though it was to AL), and I therefore and merely trying to respond.

To add to the question that has been asked -

 

Do most Catholics believe that a devout Protestant will go to heaven?

 

Do most Protestants believe that a devout Catholic will go to heaven?

 

What about -

 

Anglicanism

 

Eastern Orthodox Churches

 

Oriental Orthodox Churches

 

Assyrian Church of the East

 

Latter-day Saints

 

Jehovah's Witnesses

 

Each of these would need a separate thread. I think we should stay on Protestant and Catholic here.

 

I could go on for days about my experience with Latter-Day Saints.:thumb:

I want to preface my response (again) with the statement that I do not believe you have correctly articulated Catholic doctrine.

 

However, in answer to your question, if the Catholic person only believes what you have articulated in Post #110 as the belief then, no, I do not believe that person will be going to Heaven.

 

I have a great many Catholic friends (there is a large Catholic community here in Bardstown) that have expressed to me that they believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and that they have turned their lives over to Him. They practice all of the other Catholic rites and sacraments as well. I believe they will be going to Heaven. In fact, I believe the vast majority of Catholics believe and practice this.

 

Salvation is not dependent upon whether one is Catholic, Baptist, Episcopal, sprinkled, dunked, divorced, black, white, male, female, going to church or living out in the woods. You either recognize Christ as your Lord and Saviour and have asked Him to come into your life, or you have not. The rest is all minor doctrine.

 

Regarding your initial query about infant baptism, you yourself state that "everyone is born worthy of Heaven." Not only does that contradict known Catholic views about Original Sin, but if everyone is born worthy of Heaven, why would a deceased infant need to be baptised?

I can accept 100% of this post because, particularly the bolded part, is what I believe as well. As far as the last paragraph you are correct and I stand corrected. Unfortunately I'm not sure of what Catholic doctrine teaches now about unbaptised children at death, I do know when I was in grade school the concept of Limbo was accepted. I don't know if it still is but I will find out. I do know that one thing that was made fairly clear to me by the nuns was that unbaptised babies and children DONOT go to Hades.

I can accept 100% of this post because, particularly the bolded part, is what I believe as well. As far as the last paragraph you are correct and I stand corrected. Unfortunately I'm not sure of what Catholic doctrine teaches now about unbaptised children at death, I do know when I was in grade school the concept of Limbo was accepted. I don't know if it still is but I will find out. I do know that one thing that was made fairly clear to me by the nuns was that unbaptised babies and children DONOT go to Hades.

 

Excellent post.

 

While we have been off for a short time, I have spent a great deal of time trying to reconcile my faith's concept of Original Sin with the question of infant/child mortality. Of course, this is all labeled "Age of Accountability," although I know that scripture does not articulate such an age. So, the question as framed is: "What happens to the eternal soul of an infant or young child who dies?"

 

Interestingly, St. Augustine, whom my faith holds in great reverence (theologically speaking) as an early church Father, apparently was adamant that an unbaptised infant was condemned to dagnation.

I just wanted to say, for someone who was born to a Baptist mother and a Catholic father, and currently considers themselves not tied to any denomination, but rather restless and trying to fulfill spiritual needs, this thread has been a very interesting read...thanks to all of you that have posted. :thumb:

Alltell...I covered some of your question earlier. Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess Jesus is Lord. Not "some " knees.

 

I gave John 14:6 where we have a direct quote from Jesus him self where he answers the confused disciples question.

 

Heaven has a narrow path that leads to a narrow gate to enter Heaven...only a few will enter.

 

I was on a radio Bible talk radio show for 6 years and I discussed Bible topics with preachers of a different faith than mine.

 

They directly told me I was going to hell because I was a member of the Baptist Church. The Preacher(?) was a former Catholic memeber who said his whole Family was also going to hell because they are Catholics.

 

Since I increased my Bible Study I found out what someone posted earlier (sorry I do have a problem with short term memory loss and there is no cure) it doesn't matter what Church you attend or what Religion you belong to. Whether you take the Lord's Supper or communion...(was it Hearsay?) Again I said this earlier the Bottom line is Jesus Christ...Phillippians 1

 

Some religions have "False teachings" which I can comment on, but don't ask a mere man if someone is going to hell. Jesus Christ is the final Judge, not some Bible Football nut from Alabama.

And exactly who says these things are false teachings?

Some of the previous posts have discussed whether Communion/Lord's Supper is open to all believers or just members of that Church/Denomination.

 

This past Sunday, our church held the Lord's Supper. In our church, this event is open to believers of ALL Christian faiths. Our pastor said the following which I found to be quite wonderful; "I invite all believers to participate in the Lord's Supper today. This is the Lord's Supper not the church's". He summed up my philosophy on Christianity in one short sentence.

And exactly who says these things are false teachings?

 

I don't know what AL might be referring to, but I am always vigilant against "false" teachers (2 Corinthians 11:13), "false" apostles (Revelation 2:2), and most importantly "false" prophets (Matthew 7:15-23). "The world loves a prophets words because a prophet who is false is apt to be popular." (Luke 6:26).

 

I also am very wary of church traditions or rites that encourage praying, fasting, or giving gifts "before men to be seen of them." (Matthew 6:1-18). That is, frankly, why I really do not like many of the so-called evangelical self-help or "growth" ministries like Beth Moore. Too much inward looking and not enough outward grace.

Some of the previous posts have discussed whether Communion/Lord's Supper is open to all believers or just members of that Church/Denomination.

 

This past Sunday, our church held the Lord's Supper. In our church, this event is open to believers of ALL Christian faiths. Our pastor said the following which I found to be quite wonderful; "I invite all believers to participate in the Lord's Supper today. This is the Lord's Supper not the church's". He summed up my philosophy on Christianity in one short sentence.

 

Amen. Never have understood closed communion.

I've never seen anyone turned away when we celebrate the Lord's Supper, but we are cautioned that it is holy and reserved for those who are saved. It is then left up to the individual to decide. I have seen regular members decline if they felt as if they had an obstacle in their life at the time.

I don't even know where to begin except to say that, up to this point, this has been one of the most fascinating and enthralling threads I've ever read in this forum.

 

First, if you have the time, patience and inclination, I would suggest reading "The Catechism of the Catholic Church." Pope John Paul II ordered it updated for the first time in more than 400 years, so it's a ripping good yarn these days. Including all the updated texts and the textual notes from the Editio Typica, it comes in around a mere 850 pages of excruciatingly small print. It's nearly as long as the Bible and the language is (somehow) even more dense.

 

To start with the original question of this thread, the major difference between Catholicism and Protestantism is, simply put, recognition (or lack) of the authority of the Bishop of Rome. It caused divisions in the unity of the One True Church from very early on and certainly exasperated later quarrels. Some good men and some bad men have sat upon the throne of Saint Peter and, for better or worse, make Christianity what it is today. Some (Luther), while not seeing the Holy See as inherently problematic, did feel that the intercession of the Holy Spirit sometimes missed the mark when the bishops elected the pontiff. Others, (Henry VIII) just didn't like the fact that they couldn't do what they wanted.

 

In fact, the differences between readings of Mt. 16:18-19 go a long way to understanding a lot of the mistrust between the two groups for such a long time.

And exactly who says these things are false teachings?

 

As Hearsay stated, we are warned to beware of those who would decieve us. I am just as vigilant of those of my own faith as I am of others.

Pope...What scripture is he found?

 

Mother Mary...very important role..In the birth of Christ.

 

Be Baptized after knowing why you should be by immersion.

 

Catholics are encouraged not to read the Bible. Thats what I've been told.

(I hope that would change)

 

At the early age a child is taught confession...Penitent We confess to Jesus Christ. Not to a Man

 

Nowhere in the Bible does it mentionof "Limbo or Purgatory". Purgatory is man's think so's.

 

Prayer to the Saints...not in the Bible they are dead men/ Pray to Jesus Christ.

 

Idols...Again Man Made. What does scripture say about Idols?

 

Rosary..Tradition is man made..Jesus.."When you pray, use not vain repetitions as the heathen do".

 

Mass..man made started in the 1200's. John said in 19:30

"Christ said it is finished". There is only one sacrifice. The jews sacrificed regularly for their Sins, Jesus died once on the cross for our sins. No longer is a "daily sacrifice " needed.

I would assume that these are among the "false teachings" that AL was referring to. To that whole line of thinking I would add one thing, and no, I can't quote chapter and verse, judge not, lest ye be judged.

 

Some people seem to think it is very important to be able to spout Bible quotes, with the proper citation, like a trained parrot. I don't, I think it's much more important to try to use Biblical teaching as a guide for how to live your life. I also don't say that those people are wrong, they just believe differently then I do. Will my beliefs get the same respect from them? After all none of us KNOW what is the "right" or "wrong" way to worship. We don't KNOW what's going to happen when we die. We have faith (which by definition is a belief not based on proof) in God. Isn't that really the important part?

Hearsay,

 

I'm still trying to fully answer your question regarding the exclusionary nature of our Celebration of the Eucharist.

 

This passage in the Catholic Catechism, (taken from the Vatican website) is a part of my explanation:

 

Because this bread and wine have been made Eucharist ("eucharisted," according to an ancient expression), "we call this food Eucharist, and no one may take part in it unless he believes that what we teach is true, has received baptism for the forgiveness of sins and new birth, and lives in keeping with what Christ taught."¹⁸⁰