The Most Disturbing Exit Poll Data Coming Out of New Hampshire !!!

[UKMustangFan]

Funny, I thought the same thing when Obama was elected twice. Hope and Change!!!!

 

Me too man, me too.

[capt278]

I don't see this as an issue of bigotry. It's a realistic, defensive stance to protect our country and the people that live here. (Sounds like this: "I do solemly swear to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic...")

 

The problem is that we have these huge government entities running the immigration programs and the standards in our current state are too lax.

 

Until a bunch of white Anglo Saxon Protestants start flying planes into buildings, shooting up military installations / offices, or buying a whole bunch of pressure cookers, I'm not in favor of banning that group.....

 

I am very much in favor of a temporary hold on anyone coming in to the country meeting certain profiles, until we have a thorough review and direction for the ICE...which likely means not until something changes at the head of the snake.

 

I don't disagree with you.

 

The Left calls him a bigot. I was stating that if Trump is a bigot, then the only two President's to ever do this, who were Democrats, would need to be considered bigots also.

[WhoozYoDaddy]

Most disturbing to me is that there are so many voters who would rather receive a handout from the government than to work for and earn what they want.

[theguru]

Fair enough, I will try to make it clearer. Or maybe more confusing. Keep in mind this is broader than refugees, plenty of Muslim Americans born and raised here. They are American as you and I.

 

The collision of ideas. It should not be "Christianity vs. Islam." That is the foundation for a religious war, besides the small point of infringing on religious freedoms of Americans. It needs to be Secularism vs. Islam. When we tell Muslims that they can't shut a factory down a couple times a day to pray, it needs to be because we respect their right to be Muslim, but we don't bend to it. Islam needs to bend to the world at large. But, due to some of their doctrines, Islamic-majority countries don't have to bend. Islam avoids some of the conflicts with Secularism that Christianity has had, and learned to adjust to. (Sun in the center, evolution, slavery, and so on). But we can make them bend here.

 

But is difficult to take this position, when Christians constantly agitate, and get, the same sort of accommodations that Muslim Americans are now asking for. If we carve our public policy around the desires of Christians, and tell them they don't have to bake cakes, or sign licenses....then what is the base from which we tell Muslim Americans "no." The means by which Muslim Americans will demand, with lawsuits and such, that we bend to their religious doctrines are already established by the Christians. Strict separation of church and state is the best way to both protect everyone's right to religion, and to defend our society from bad ideas of any particular religion.

 

You nailed it MayfieldFan.

 

I have been tossing the same thought around for awhile.

 

One of the reasons we are going to have a lot of problems with Muslims in America is because they are going to want the same accommodations given to Christians in America.

 

You are absolutely right that the only way to make it work is a strict separation of church and state.

 

In short, Islam is outing Christianity in America like atheists and agnostics have attempted to do for a long time.

[Bluegrasscard]

Fair enough, I will try to make it clearer. Or maybe more confusing. Keep in mind this is broader than refugees, plenty of Muslim Americans born and raised here. They are American as you and I.

 

The collision of ideas. It should not be "Christianity vs. Islam." That is the foundation for a religious war, besides the small point of infringing on religious freedoms of Americans. It needs to be Secularism vs. Islam. When we tell Muslims that they can't shut a factory down a couple times a day to pray, it needs to be because we respect their right to be Muslim, but we don't bend to it. Islam needs to bend to the world at large. But, due to some of their doctrines, Islamic-majority countries don't have to bend. Islam avoids some of the conflicts with Secularism that Christianity has had, and learned to adjust to. (Sun in the center, evolution, slavery, and so on). But we can make them bend here.

 

But is difficult to take this position, when Christians constantly agitate, and get, the same sort of accommodations that Muslim Americans are now asking for. If we carve our public policy around the desires of Christians, and tell them they don't have to bake cakes, or sign licenses....then what is the base from which we tell Muslim Americans "no." The means by which Muslim Americans will demand, with lawsuits and such, that we bend to their religious doctrines are already established by the Christians. Strict separation of church and state is the best way to both protect everyone's right to religion, and to defend our society from bad ideas of any particular religion.

 

The problem with the bolded as it deals with Islam is that there is no separation. Islam is not just a religion. It is a social and government structure as well. All integrated.

[Bluegrasscard]

You nailed it MayfieldFan.

 

I have been tossing the same thought around for awhile.

One of the reasons we are going to have a lot of problems with Muslims in America is because they are going to want the same accommodations given to Christians in America.

 

You are absolutely right that the only way to make it work is a strict separation of church and state.

 

In short, Islam is outing Christianity in America like atheists and agnostics have attempted to do for a long time.

 

These accomodations where?

[MJAlltheWay24]

 

You are absolutely right that the only way to make it work is a strict separation of church and state.

 

In short, Islam is outing Christianity in America like atheists and agnostics have attempted to do for a long time.

 

Are you and Mayfield trying to take away my Christmas vacation? lol I say that jokingly but there is a serious tone to it. If we completely separate Church and State, wouldn't that have to be the case?

[PepRock01]

Didn't a top US Intelligence official just issue a report that it was highly likely that ISIS would attempt to attack the US Homeland in 2016, by means of infiltrating the mass immigration to the US/ European countries?

 

"Clapper warned that ISIS and its eight branches were the No. 1 terrorist threat, and that it was using the refugee exodus from violence in Iraq and Syria to hide among innocent civilians in order to reach other countries."

 

Intelligence official: ISIS to attempt US attacks in 2016 - CNNPolitics.com

 

I'm not convinced a temporary ban on immigrants from that region is necessarily a bad thing.

 

Temporary from the region is one thing. Temporary on all Muslims is very reminiscent of the know-nothings.

[theguru]

These accomodations where?

 

Following is a list of privileges granted to people in the U.S. (and many western nations) for being Christian.

 

If you identify as Christian, there’s a good chance you’ve never thought about these things. In response to the ever-increasing “War on Christianity” headlines, I thought it prudent to create this list. Try and be more cognizant of these items and you’ll start to realize how much work we have to do to make the United States a place that is truly safe and accessible for folks of all belief systems.

 

1. You can expect to have time off work to celebrate religious holidays.
   
2. Music and television programs pertaining to your religion’s holidays are readily accessible.
   
3. It is easy to find stores that carry items that enable you to practice your faith and celebrate religious holidays.
   
4. You aren’t pressured to celebrate holidays from another faith that may conflict with your religious values.
   
5. Holidays celebrating your faith are so widely supported you can often forget they are limited to your faith (e.g. wish someone a “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Easter” without considering their faith).
   
6. You can worship freely, without fear of violence or threats.
   
7. A bumper sticker supporting your religion won’t likely lead to your car being vandalized.
   
8. You can practice your religious customs without being questioned, mocked, or inhibited.
   
9. If you are being tried in court, you can assume that the jury of “your peers” will share your faith and not hold that against you in weighing decisions.
   
10. When swearing an oath, you will place your hand on a religious scripture pertaining to your faith.
    
11. Positive references to your faith are seen dozens of times a day by everyone, regardless of their faith.
    
12. Politicians responsible for your governance are probably members of your faith.
    
13. Politicians can make decisions citing your faith without being labeled as heretics or extremists.
    
14. It is easy for you to find your faith accurately depicted in television, movies, books, and other media.
    
15. You can reasonably assume that anyone you encounter will have a decent understanding of your beliefs.
    
16. You will not be penalized (socially or otherwise) for not knowing other people’s religious customs.
    
17. Your faith is accepted/supported at your workplace.
    
18. You can go into any career you want without it being associated with or explained by your faith.
    
19. You can travel to any part of the country and know your religion will be accepted, safe, and you will have access to religious spaces to practice your faith.
    
20. Your faith can be an aspect of your identity without being a defining aspect (e.g., people won’t think of you as their “Christian” friend)
    
21. You can be polite, gentle, or peaceful, and not be considered an “exception” to those practicing your faith.
    
22. Fundraising to support congregations of your faith will not be investigated as potentially threatening or terrorist behavior.
    
23. Construction of spaces of worship will not likely be halted due to your faith.
    
24. You are never asked to speak on behalf of all the members of your faith.
    
25. You can go anywhere and assume you will be surrounded by members of your faith.
    
26. Without special effort, your children will have a multitude of teachers who share your faith.
    
27. Without special effort, your children will have a multitude of friends who share your faith.
    
28. It is easily accessible for you or your children to be educated from kindergarten through post-grad at institutions of your faith.
    
29. Disclosing your faith to an adoption agency will not likely prevent you from being able to adopt children.
    
30. In the event of a divorce, the judge won’t immediately grant custody of your children to your ex because of your faith.
    
31. Your faith is taught or offered as a course at most public institutions.
    
32. You can complain about your religion being under attack without it being perceived as an attack on another religion.
    
33. You can dismiss the idea that identifying with your faith bears certain privileges.
    

30+ Examples of Christian Privilege

[theguru]

There is a picture with that link too:

 

[MayfieldFan]

From 2009. Prophetic.

Hitchens: Resisting Islam

[hidinout]

Didn't read this thread but the actual results ( the entrance poll ???) that eligible voters chose a socialist as their presidential nominee is far scarier than any exit poll data .

[Hellcats]

Didn't read this thread but the actual results ( the entrance poll ???) that eligible voters chose a socialist as their presidential nominee is far scarier than any exit poll data .

 

In all seriousness you can run these people down all you want, but there is a separation that's causing them to feel this way. On the other side of the spectrum we have a guy who is running his campaign on the idea that immigrants are the biggest problem in our nation. There is a separation that causes a portion to support that idea too.

 

Both ideas have some merit.

[John Anthony]

In all seriousness you can run these people down all you want' date=' but there is a separation that's causing them to feel this way. On the other side of the spectrum we have a guy who is running his campaign on the idea that immigrants are the biggest problem in our nation. There is a separation that causes a portion to support that idea too. Both ideas have some merit.[/quote']

 

Your thoughts on Mohammad Barry who used a machete this morning to walk into a Columbus, OH restaurant named "Nazareth" and started attacking random people with an ax?

 

Can't wait to find the details out about him I'll start a thread later.

 

You can take away guns Hellcats, 22p, Sci Fri, but you can't take away evil.

[BlueTip]

You nailed it MayfieldFan.

 

I have been tossing the same thought around for awhile.

 

One of the reasons we are going to have a lot of problems with Muslims in America is because they are going to want the same accommodations given to Christians in America.

 

You are absolutely right that the only way to make it work is a strict separation of church and state.

 

"In short, Islam is outing Christianity in America like atheists and agnostics have attempted to do for a long time.

 

You can expect to have time off work to celebrate religious holidays.

Music and television programs pertaining to your religion’s holidays are readily accessible.

It is easy to find stores that carry items that enable you to practice your faith and celebrate religious holidays.

You aren’t pressured to celebrate holidays from another faith that may conflict with your religious values.

Holidays celebrating your faith are so widely supported you can often forget they are limited to your faith (e.g. wish someone a “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Easter” without considering their faith).

You can worship freely, without fear of violence or threats.

A bumper sticker supporting your religion won’t likely lead to your car being vandalized.

You can practice your religious customs without being questioned, mocked, or inhibited.

If you are being tried in court, you can assume that the jury of “your peers” will share your faith and not hold that against you in weighing decisions.

When swearing an oath, you will place your hand on a religious scripture pertaining to your faith.

Positive references to your faith are seen dozens of times a day by everyone, regardless of their faith.

Politicians responsible for your governance are probably members of your faith.

Politicians can make decisions citing your faith without being labeled as heretics or extremists.

It is easy for you to find your faith accurately depicted in television, movies, books, and other media.

You can reasonably assume that anyone you encounter will have a decent understanding of your beliefs.

You will not be penalized (socially or otherwise) for not knowing other people’s religious customs.

Your faith is accepted/supported at your workplace.

You can go into any career you want without it being associated with or explained by your faith.

You can travel to any part of the country and know your religion will be accepted, safe, and you will have access to religious spaces to practice your faith.

Your faith can be an aspect of your identity without being a defining aspect (e.g., people won’t think of you as their “Christian” friend)

You can be polite, gentle, or peaceful, and not be considered an “exception” to those practicing your faith.

Fundraising to support congregations of your faith will not be investigated as potentially threatening or terrorist behavior.

Construction of spaces of worship will not likely be halted due to your faith.

You are never asked to speak on behalf of all the members of your faith.

You can go anywhere and assume you will be surrounded by members of your faith.

Without special effort, your children will have a multitude of teachers who share your faith.

Without special effort, your children will have a multitude of friends who share your faith.

It is easily accessible for you or your children to be educated from kindergarten through post-grad at institutions of your faith.

Disclosing your faith to an adoption agency will not likely prevent you from being able to adopt children.

In the event of a divorce, the judge won’t immediately grant custody of your children to your ex because of your faith.

Your faith is taught or offered as a course at most public institutions.

You can complain about your religion being under attack without it being perceived as an attack on another religion.

You can dismiss the idea that identifying with your faith bears certain privileges."

 

 

That's a really long list but you could have made it much shorter. Only two of the items listed are actually pertinent to your point (that Christians receive State accommodations showing that we need clear separation of church and state as I highlighted in your post)...

 

1. You can expect to have time off work to celebrate religious holidays.

 

2. When swearing an oath, you will place your hand on a religious scripture pertaining to your faith.

 

Those are the only two that have anything to do with the government establishing a separation of church and state.

 

I could give partial credit for employers giving accommodation to Christians but at my place of work we allow Muslims to leave their work and find a quiet place to pray when they need to. They are paid for that time. There are no carve outs for any other religious rituals, though you could argue that really Christians and other religious folks can pray pretty much any time you want. That's not really church/state related but similar.

 

The rest of your list really comes down to how we as human beings or American citizens choose to treat each other. Do we show kindness to all or do we not?

 

That's not on 'the government' or 'the man' or 'we the people' or whatever term you like that represents 'the state'.

 

And of course Mayfield Fan 'likes' it because MF likes anything that is anti-religion.