Casey clerk says Beshear told him to issue same-sex marriage licenses or resign

[banana slug]

PP, what's your take on the Sanctuary Cities?

[PurplePride92]

PP, what's your take on the Sanctuary Cities?

 

No take at all. I don't know what they are.

[PurplePride92]

PP, what's your take on the Sanctuary Cities?

 

Just read the thread on them and that is the extent of my knowledge of them. My take is that I don't understand them and why they are allowed to be sanctuary cities. The whole idea of sanctuary cities confuses me and seems to me to be just as illegal as these clerks discriminating against homosexuals. Sanctuary cities don't seem like the right answer to our illegal immigration issues. Seems like they make it worse and a whole lot easier for them to make it to America and stay in America. It's a terrorist's dream.

 

That's my initial take based on what I have read on BGP.

[theguru]

Mandy Connell had Kenny Brown on her show today. Seems like a reasonable gentleman, with a plan to seek to change the way licenses are issued, rather than defy the current law. Very interesting insight from Mr. Brown, as well as Ms. Connell.

 

I need to do some research on some of the points they raised. Like, not all states issue licenses at all. What is the reason Kentucky does? If, as proposed by Mr. Brown, the process moves online, will there be a waiting period between the time the application is filled out and the time a couple receives the license?

 

Ms. Connell had Jack Conway on yesterday, to talk about his non-pursuit of an appeal. He stated there were no constitutional grounds, and expanded his thoughts to include that he did what he believed was right legally, and that he wanted to be on the right side of history. Today, she recounted those comments, but omitted the part about where he said he didn't pursue because he believed there was no legal grounds. She rearranged the account to say he didn't pursue only because he didn't believe. If I hadn't heard his comments yesterday, I'd have totally given half a thought to her lambasting him for following his beliefs, while trying to force others to do otherwise.

 

Kenny Brown is a good guy. He runs his office both professionally and efficiently.

[plantmanky]

Kenny Brown is a good guy. He runs his office both professionally and efficiently.

 

He brought up a point last night too that all the county clerks, when they took their oath of office for the current term, did so based upon the current laws of the state, and being that no law has been changed yet, it puts them in a situation that they did not take an oath on. Putting all the clerks in an awkward situation. I think his idea of getting marriage licensing out of the clerk's office is a great idea.

 

Its also intriguing, that Beshear (who campaigned against gay marriage) is now overly forcing the issue, and not allowing for a special session to change/modify the statute to conform with the SC ruling under the premises that it's wasted money to do so. When in actuality it may be legally required for the clerks.

[SportsGuy41017]

^ there job is to issue marriage licenses, they need to do the duties of that job, or quit or be removed. How is that overly forcing the issue?

 

And we do not need to be spending 60k per day for a special.

 

Again, it's always been a duty of the job to issue marriage licenses. They need to do their job! One in Mississippi just resigned over it. I don't agree with her not wanting to issue licenses but I applaud her for knowing that she need to resign

[Hellcats]

No special session. The law never existed since it was deemed unconstitutional, so they didn't swear to it.

[Bipsic]

He brought up a point last night too that all the county clerks, when they took their oath of office for the current term, did so based upon the current laws of the state, and being that no law has been changed yet, it puts them in a situation that they did not take an oath on. Putting all the clerks in an awkward situation. I think his idea of getting marriage licensing out of the clerk's office is a great idea.

 

Its also intriguing, that Beshear (who campaigned against gay marriage) is now overly forcing the issue, and not allowing for a special session to change/modify the statute to conform with the SC ruling under the premises that it's wasted money to do so. When in actuality it may be legally required for the clerks.

 

If anybody is interested, the clerk's oath and duties are below:

 

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=21176

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/lrcpubs/ib114.pdf

 

While I guess (maybe?) I can applaud the Casey County clerk for at least stating that he would go to jail for his beliefs, I don't see how he, the Rowan County clerk, or any others throughout the state have the gall to collect a taxpayer-funded paycheck while blatantly defying the highest law of the land.

 

I understand that an overhaul of the system might be a different argument for a different day, but the Supreme Court could not have been any more clear in allowing SSM and Gov. Beshear provided direction on top of that. If this directive is so important that these clerks can't resign, either they don't understand the role of SCOTUS, or they feel like their personal beliefs hold more weight than the rights of other citizens. In either instance they have proven not fit to hold public office, and I hope they're ready to pay for the impending lawsuits or lose the $64-117k annually they're pulling in from those they're supposed to serve.

[plantmanky]

No special session. The law never existed since it was deemed unconstitutional, so they didn't swear to it.

 

If the law never existed, then that would make all marriage certificates null and void.

[PurplePride92]

If anybody is interested, the clerk's oath and duties are below:

 

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/Statutes/statute.aspx?id=21176

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/lrcpubs/ib114.pdf

 

While I guess (maybe?) I can applaud the Casey County clerk for at least stating that he would go to jail for his beliefs, I don't see how he, the Rowan County clerk, or any others throughout the state have the gall to collect a taxpayer-funded paycheck while blatantly defying the highest law of the land.

 

I understand that an overhaul of the system might be a different argument for a different day, but the Supreme Court could not have been any more clear in allowing SSM and Gov. Beshear provided direction on top of that. If this directive is so important that these clerks can't resign, either they don't understand the role of SCOTUS, or they feel like their personal beliefs hold more weight than the rights of other citizens. In either instance they have proven not fit to hold public office, and I hope they're ready to pay for the impending lawsuits or lose the $64-117k annually they're pulling in from those they're supposed to serve.

 

Excellent first post. Very well said. Welcome to BGP!!!!!

[Bluegrasscard]

Has Executive Order been issued?

 

That does not cost 60k a day.

 

It it would simply reissue the laws now in effect. Any know what the last version of the laws stuck down by the lower federal court?

[thehotsnakes]

Has Executive Order been issued?

 

That does not cost 60k a day.

 

It it would simply reissue the laws now in effect. Any know what the last version of the laws stuck down by the lower federal court?

 

I don't get what an executive order would accomplish? I mean, the clerk legally has to provide the marriage license, regardless of gender.

[Bluegrasscard]

I don't get what an executive order would accomplish? I mean, the clerk legally has to provide the marriage license, regardless of gender.

 

According to what law, or procedure that is approved for their use?

 

The Supreme Court set aside an appellate court ruling that reversed a lower court ruling that nullified a law. So what law is currently effect? Its a simple question.

 

It is completely unclear what the clerks are supposed to do since there duty is to carryout procedures and policies in accordance with Kentucky State law. So, what law are they to use when issuing marriage licenses? If a brother and sister ask for a marriage license do they grant it? If a brother and brother ask for a marriage license - do they grant it?

 

The governor should simply state what law is in effect and provide guidance accordingly. Its really a simple task.

 

Of course there is political angle to the governor dealing with this as simply as possible this year. But he and his AG are in a tough spot with this.

[All Tell]

Mandy Connell had Kenny Brown on her show today. Seems like a reasonable gentleman, with a plan to seek to change the way licenses are issued, rather than defy the current law. Very interesting insight from Mr. Brown, as well as Ms. Connell.

 

I need to do some research on some of the points they raised. Like, not all states issue licenses at all. What is the reason Kentucky does? If, as proposed by Mr. Brown, the process moves online, will there be a waiting period between the time the application is filled out and the time a couple receives the license?

 

Ms. Connell had Jack Conway on yesterday, to talk about his non-pursuit of an appeal. He stated there were no constitutional grounds, and expanded his thoughts to include that he did what he believed was right legally, and that he wanted to be on the right side of history. Today, she recounted those comments, but omitted the part about where he said he didn't pursue because he believed there was no legal grounds. She rearranged the account to say he didn't pursue only because he didn't believe. If I hadn't heard his comments yesterday, I'd have totally given half a thought to her lambasting him for following his beliefs, while trying to force others to do otherwise.

 

How is this any different then the County Clerks. Conway refused to do his job and appeal the ruling because he BELIEVED there was no legal basis but that's not his call to make, the clerks are refusing to issue licensees because they BELIEVE either no law exists to justify them or their personal beliefs about the issue. In both cases people are not doing jobs they were elected to do because of what they believe. Conway's refusal cost the state several hundred thousand dollars because outside council had to be hired. Beshear at the point should have demanded his resignation on the same grounds he is now using on the county clerks but that was never an option as Conway is the anointed successor to Beshear chosen by Jerry Lundergrin and his old boy network. FWIW Mandy is a supporter of same sex marriage.

[PP1]

According to what law, or procedure that is approved for their use?

 

The Supreme Court set aside an appellate court ruling that reversed a lower court ruling that nullified a law. So what law is currently effect? Its a simple question.

 

It is completely unclear what the clerks are supposed to do since there duty is to carryout procedures and policies in accordance with Kentucky State law. So, what law are they to use when issuing marriage licenses? If a brother and sister ask for a marriage license do they grant it? If a brother and brother ask for a marriage license - do they grant it?

 

The governor should simply state what law is in effect and provide guidance accordingly. Its really a simple task.

 

Of course there is political angle to the governor dealing with this as simply as possible this year. But he and his AG are in a tough spot with this.

 

Good post.