Casey clerk says Beshear told him to issue same-sex marriage licenses or resign

[rockmom]

An interesting question I saw the other day: if a Christian baker is complicit in the sin of a homosexual couple by baking them a cake, or a KY Co Clerk by issuing them a marriage, if a Christian sells a gun to someone who has I'll intent, are they also complicit? I would say no because there was no prior knowledge of intent.

[thehotsnakes]

According to what law, or procedure that is approved for their use?

 

The Supreme Court set aside an appellate court ruling that reversed a lower court ruling that nullified a law. So what law is currently effect? Its a simple question.

 

It is completely unclear what the clerks are supposed to do since there duty is to carryout procedures and policies in accordance with Kentucky State law. So, what law are they to use when issuing marriage licenses? If a brother and sister ask for a marriage license do they grant it? If a brother and brother ask for a marriage license - do they grant it?

 

The governor should simply state what law is in effect and provide guidance accordingly. Its really a simple task.

 

Of course there is political angle to the governor dealing with this as simply as possible this year. But he and his AG are in a tough spot with this.

 

You're kidding, right?

 

SCOTUS trumps state law. So, what was their decision? That states can no longer deny marriage rights based on gender.

 

That's really really cut and dry to me.

[capt278]

I don't get what an executive order would accomplish? I mean, the clerk legally has to provide the marriage license, regardless of gender.

 

An executive order would accomplish nothing. Executive orders are used to explain how to execute a current law. While the SCOTUS ruling says that laws banning same sex marriage unconstitutional, it gave the states no grace period to write the proper laws. The legislatures are going to have to go back and rescind existing laws and write new ones. That's just facts.

 

The SCOTUS should have set a time table for the states to have things done, say 60 days.

 

Then again, the LGBT community could have been more understanding instead of the "I want what I want and I want it now" mentality.

 

Before some attack, I think the clerks should do their job. It would help if the legislatures had time to assist them.

[Bluegrasscard]

You're kidding, right?

 

SCOTUS trumps state law. So, what was their decision? That states can no longer deny marriage rights based on gender.

 

That's really really cut and dry to me.

 

All SCOTUS did was sent aside an appellate court ruling - period. I posted that fact before.

 

SCOTUS created no new laws and had zero direct legal impact on these laws.

 

The ruling by e original federal case or cases as there were 2 in Kentucky now are in effect. So you have see how those cases ruled to actually understand what is the state of laws dealing with marriage.

 

The state executive branch - specifically the Governor and the AG should be specific how e lower court ruling - that overruled by the 5th circuit appellate to set up the SCOTUS case- impacts the state laws. Because it is THAT ruling that now rules.

[Jim Schue]

No special session. The law never existed since it was deemed unconstitutional, so they didn't swear to it.

 

State laws change all the time. This is a very lame excuse.

[PurplePride92]

All SCOTUS did was sent aside an appellate court ruling - period. I posted that fact before.

 

SCOTUS created no new laws and had zero direct legal impact on these laws.

 

The ruling by e original federal case or cases as there were 2 in Kentucky now are in effect. So you have see how those cases ruled to actually understand what is the state of laws dealing with marriage.

 

The state executive branch - specifically the Governor and the AG should be specific how e lower court ruling - that overruled by the 5th circuit appellate to set up the SCOTUS case- impacts the state laws. Because it is THAT ruling that now rules.

 

You're still justifying that they not do their job though......

[Bluegrasscard]

You're still justifying that they not do their job though......

 

These are state laws that need attention by state officials. The argument being used to not issue is probably the weakest.

 

jack Conway should reissue his instructions to clerks. But we know we will not.

[PurplePride92]

These are state laws that need attention by state officials. The argument being used to not issue is probably the weakest.

 

jack Conway should reissue his instructions to clerks. But we know we will not.

 

Just playing by the rules set forth here on BGP. When I explain the mindset of rioters I am justifying rioting. When you explain the mindset of the clerks you are justifying them not doing their job. I didn't make the rules but I damn sure will play by them.

[Bluegrasscard]

Just playing by the rules set forth here on BGP. When I explain the mindset of rioters I am justifying rioting. When you explain the mindset of the clerks you are justifying them not doing their job. I didn't make the rules but I damn sure will play by them.

 

Thats the problem. The rules - that come from the State - have not been reissued to match what rulings (plural) mean in regards to the impacted state laws.

 

I think the 'religuos' factor is bogus. I think that administration needs to do more that mimick the Nike commercial - I.e. 'Just do it.'

[thehotsnakes]

I'm confused by this. Are you really saying that the state laws are still applicable after the SCOTUS ruling? Just let me know if you are, because then I'll know just how to deal with this debate.

[woodsrider]

I thought about calling in, but I was driving between Hawesville and Cloverport at the time, and cell service is sketchy through there. Didn't want my call to drop. . As I neared Hardinsburg I thought about sending an email. By the time I got to Rough River I was over it.

Is she back on in Louisville? I thought she moved to Denver?

[All Tell]

Is she back on in Louisville? I thought she moved to Denver?

 

6-8 M-F. She still lives in Denver and does the show from there. It's great having someone holding JCPS and JCTA's collective feet to the fire again.

[Bluegrasscard]

I'm confused by this. Are you really saying that the state laws are still applicable after the SCOTUS ruling? Just let me know if you are, because then I'll know just how to deal with this debate.

 

If you read the originating court decision - which is the one in effect. It says some laws and State Constitution Amendments are invalid due to the 14th Amendment. It does not make any specific reference to any specific codified law or people-approved amendment. Its a broad, non-specific broadbrush.

 

Understand that the 6th Circuit and SCOTUS are appellate courts. What they do is usually very, very simple. They usually simply uphold or overturn originating court and lower appellate court decisions. They may also remand a decision back for correction or other work. But usually they just uphold or overturn.

[PurplePride92]

I think the 'religuos' factor is bogus. I think that administration needs to do more that mimick the Nike commercial - I.e. 'Just do it.'

 

Then why are you are on here justifying their insubordination?

[Bluegrasscard]

Then why are you are on here justifying their insubordination?

 

I think the clerks have a case to strongly and specifically request specific updates to Conways procedures that he issued. His instructions indicated how to deal with the laws and specifically called out the penalties associated with not following the law. Something like that from the AG holds a lot of power.

 

So clerks who hold up on issuing ANY licenses until that is done seem to be in the right.

 

 

And I think many posters here should understand that SCOTUS did no magical thing and no magical power. They just set aside the 6th Circuit opinion. They did not 'tell' the states to do anything and one has to go back to the original cases to understand what has really happened.