VP Debate

[Clyde]

Great question. I think it's well documented why Catholic's might not support the President. I would like to hear from a faith standpoint why they might not support Gov. Romney. If some are willing to forego their faith when choosing, Id be interested in hearing that rationale.

 

I think BF has boxed himself in with his comment about Catholics who vote for President Obama having a weakness and not following their faith.

 

Is Mr Romney pro-death penalty?

 

Stupid comment.

[rockmom]

I'll bite, malachicrunch.

 

If one only considers one issue or two issues in voting, then you'll likely not be able to cast a vote. I firmly believe in separation of Church and State. To me, it's the single most important principle of our country. I support the Catholic Church in their positions against contraception and abortion. However, I firmly believe that just as the government has no right to influence our faith, the Church should not "influence" our government. The issues are a matter of personal responsibility. They cannot be "legistlated". It is incumbant upon us to be personally involved in resolving and influencing those resolutions.

 

When casting my vote, my overriding concern is for those aspects of a candidate's platform that serve the greater good, primarily with respect to social issues like poverty and healthcare. The lines get blurred when you get to the health care aspect. Contraception, for instance, isn't just for, well....contraception. My daughter takes it to treat a medical disorder. Planned Parenthood isn't simply an abortion clinic. It provides low-cost preventative health care to women. It ALSO provides non-contraceptive family planning counseling.

 

I find myself voting for Democrats more often than Republicans because, with all their flaws, they support positions I feel are most important.

 

I feel it's my duty to vote, and to vote to the best of my ability following my faith. But when casting my vote, I do so for what I feel is best for the COUNTRY.

[malachicrunch]

I think BF has boxed himself in with his comment about Catholics who vote for President Obama having a weakness and not following their faith.

 

Is Mr Romney pro-death penalty?

 

Stupid comment.

 

I'm guessing he is pro-death penalty. Interesting. So I guess Catholic, as well as other denominations have to weigh and prioritize to make their choice. So if we listen to VP Biden and 52% of the Catholic vote, abortion is not a priority issue for them?

[Clyde]

I'm guessing he is pro-death penalty. Interesting. So I guess Catholic, as well as other denominations have to weigh and prioritize to make their choice. So if we listen to VP Biden and 52% of the Catholic vote, abortion is not a priority issue for them?

 

That's exactly why you don't make that comment. If you only vote for those that fully support the Catholic doctrine you'll never pull the lever.

 

If you choose to prioritize then you're not doing what you said you should do.

[malachicrunch]

I'll bite, malachicrunch.

 

If one only considers one issue or two issues in voting, then you'll likely not be able to cast a vote. I firmly believe in separation of Church and State. To me, it's the single most important principle of our country. I support the Catholic Church in their positions against contraception and abortion. However, I firmly believe that just as the government has no right to influence our faith, the Church should not "influence" our government. The issues are a matter of personal responsibility. They cannot be "legistlated". It is incumbant upon us to be personally involved in resolving and influencing those resolutions.

 

When casting my vote, my overriding concern is for those aspects of a candidate's platform that serve the greater good, primarily with respect to social issues like poverty and healthcare. The lines get blurred when you get to the health care aspect. Contraception, for instance, isn't just for, well....contraception. My daughter takes it to treat a medical disorder. Planned Parenthood isn't simply an abortion clinic. It provides low-cost preventative health care to women. It ALSO provides non-contraceptive family planning counseling.

 

I find myself voting for Democrats more often than Republicans because, with all their flaws, they support positions I feel are most important.

 

I feel it's my duty to vote, and to vote to the best of my ability following my faith. But when casting my vote, I do so for what I feel is best for the COUNTRY.

 

Very good. We've been down the contraceptive road, so we'll dismiss that. Your statement that the issues are of personal responsibility have the tones of pro choice. That's fine. I am not familiar with the Church. I just assumed that the faith guided the flock more than it appears to.

[malachicrunch]

That's exactly why you don't make that comment. If you only vote for those that fully support the Catholic doctrine you'll never pull the lever.

 

If you choose to prioritize then you're not doing what you said you should do.

 

You lost me. What comment?

[Clyde]

You lost me. What comment?

 

This one.

 

I wouldn't call it "ability;" I'd call it more of a weakness. You either follow your faith or you do not. .

[rockmom]

Very good. We've been down the contraceptive road, so we'll dismiss that. Your statement that the issues are of personal responsibility have the tones of pro choice. That's fine. I am not familiar with the Church. I just assumed that the faith guided the flock more than it appears to.

 

When I say personal responsibility, I mean (for instance) that to solve the issue of abortion, legislation will not do it. A person who is against abortion has to put themselves out there and help solve the problem by effecting change in a personal manner, i.e. mentoring young girls and boys and teaching them self-respect and the importance of waiting before having sex. I went into a whole spiel about this in another thread, so I won't re-hash it here.

 

My faith most DEFINITELY guides me. But what I believe is that I am responsibile for solving the issues according to my faith personally, not relying on the government to do it. The issues are moral, not legal. Even if they were illegal, they'd exist. Our responsibility doesn't start or stop when casting our vote.

[malachicrunch]

Oh I thought you were referring to something I said. The reason I delved into this was that I had a misconception on the role that someone's faith guided them in day to day life. I am obviously not Catholic, so when I heard the VP Biden was Catholic and then heard his stance on abortion.Then we bring up the death penalty. So then I just thought, how do these people make a decision. I thought Rockmom answered that very well.

[malachicrunch]

When I say personal responsibility, I mean (for instance) that to solve the issue of abortion, legislation will not do it. A person who is against abortion has to put themselves out there and help solve the problem by effecting change in a personal manner, i.e. mentoring young girls and boys and teaching them self-respect and the importance of waiting before having sex. I went into a whole spiel about this in another thread, so I won't re-hash it here.

 

My faith most DEFINITELY guides me. But what I believe is that I am responsibile for solving the issues according to my faith personally, not relying on the government to do it. The issues are moral, not legal. Even if they were illegal, they'd exist. Our responsibility doesn't start or stop when casting our vote.

 

In that case you would believe that there should be no legislation whatsoever. Therefore it is a "choice".

[Clyde]

Oh I thought you were referring to something I said. The reason I delved into this was that I had a misconception on the role that someone's faith guided them in day to day life. I am obviously not Catholic, so when I heard the VP Biden was Catholic and then heard his stance on abortion.Then we bring up the death penalty. So then I just thought, how do these people make a decision. I thought Rockmom answered that very well.

 

She nailed it.

[rockmom]

In that case you would believe that there should be no legislation whatsoever. Therefore it is a "choice".

 

No, it's more complicated than that. Not to you specifically, but one thing that really bugs the living tar out of me is that people want to boil down everything to legal vs. illegal. The fact of the matter is that I don't believe in abortion, for instance. But my duty is not to judge someone who is considering it, or has had it. My duty is to try to influence their decision by methods I described a while back, all of which include me personally interacting with women in the position of making the choice. Too many people think their duty is complete once they cast a ballot, or give lip service to their position. Get out of your houses, off your couches and find an avenue to interact with those facing the decision. Find a way to spend some time with youngsters and help influence them. Don't just preach from the pulpit (per se). Get out there and live it.

[Birdsfan]

I think BF has boxed himself in with his comment about Catholics who vote for President Obama having a weakness and not following their faith.

 

Is Mr Romney pro-death penalty?

 

Stupid comment.

Nope; not in the least.

 

Obviously, there are sides to Catholic doctrine that neither party satisfies completely. The Democratic party espouses some concepts of social justice and caring for the poor and helpless. These are in keeping with Catholic teachings on social justice. The Republican Party supports the protection of innocent life. So...what does one do? Not vote for anyone?

 

What you have to look at is choosing the greater good. You have to understand that the Romney administration would do what's necessary to revive the economy. This will help struggling families and improve the lives of society as a whole -- including those most in need. They also will protect religious freedom in America from the unprecedented Obama mandates.

 

So basically, although neither platform is going to dovetail perfectly with Catholic doctrine, Mitt Romney is the closer of the two by a long shot.

[Birdsfan]

Stupid comment.

 

That's exactly why you don't make that comment. If you only vote for those that fully support the Catholic doctrine you'll never pull the lever.

 

If you choose to prioritize then you're not doing what you said you should do.

I'm sorry you misunderstood. My remarks were in direct response to this comment:

 

Catholics that voted for Obama (52%) in 2008 that have the ability to seperate religious beliefs and matters of law.

 

To that, I said the following:

 

I wouldn't call it "ability;" I'd call it more of a weakness. You either follow your faith or you do not. Sure, there are plenty of Catholics who don't follow Church teachings to the letter. While it isn't the end of the world, it's certainly not something that should be a source of pride.

 

 

What you, apparently, thought I meant was that one has to vote only for a candidate that follows Catholic doctrine to the letter. In actuality, my point was that completely seperating ones faith from matters of policy is not an "ability" to be proud of. Your faith should be a part of the equation, and even though you can never pick the perfect candidate, you have to weigh the options and choose the candidate who you believe will do the greatest good. Your faith should always be considered when you make a decision as crucial as voting.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Birdsfan