Westboro vs CFA: Different?

[Clyde]

Sure they're saying the same thing. It's all in the timing, location and delivery. People were against various wars. The funerals of fallen soldiers were not where you pointed that out. Those who did lost much support from even people who agreed with their views.

 

No debate on any of the above.

 

My question deals with the real message being delivered.

[LRCW]

Are you talking about God punishing the saved or unsaved?

[Clyde]

Are you talking about God punishing the saved or unsaved?

 

Both/either.

[LRCW]

Both/either.

 

 

Christ has already paid the punishment for the saved.

[Clyde]

Christ has already paid the punishment for the saved.

 

OK. Let's narrow it down then. Will God take the life of the unsaved in order to send a message to his flock?

[LRCW]

OK. Let's narrow it down then. Will God take the life of the unsaved in order to send a message to his flock?

 

Has He done it before?

[Clyde]

Has He done it before?

 

Were you not paying attention when I said I'm not an expert on scripture?

[LRCW]

Were you not paying attention when I said I'm not an expert on scripture?

 

 

I assumed you had heard the stories of Noah's Ark, and Sodom and Gomorrah. My mistake.

[Clyde]

I assumed you had heard the stories of Noah's Ark, and Sodom and Gomorrah. My mistake.

 

Let's take S&G then. Can we equate their sins to homosexuality?

[LRCW]

Let's take S&G then. Can we equate their sins to homosexuality?

 

Read Genesis 19, and let me know what you think.

[LRCW]

Read Genesis 19, and let me know what you think.

 

 

Sorry. First book of the Old Testament.

[spindoc]

Let's take S&G then. Can we equate their sins to homosexuality?

Is that a serious question?

[Randy Parker]

I am asking you if there is scripture that can be interpreted that God will use death today in order for us to learn to change our ways?

 

The story of Ananias & Sapphira from the book of Acts comes to mind. God killed both of them because they lied about a gift they had given to the church. After they're both literally carried out of the building, the church was seized by fear.

 

But I think the New Testament reveals that for Christians, God's discipline comes in the form of hardship or difficulty (see Hebrews 12:7) & not necessarily the death of others.

 

I guess I would say that I see a difference between God's discipline & God's wrath. God's discipline comes mostly through hardship & is reserved for those who follow Him. But as far as Sodom & Gomorrah, the Flood, Ananias & Sapphira...I see those incidents as evidence of God's wrath against evil. Can He also use that to motivate change in others? Yes. But it's mostly about administering justice on those who mock Him.

 

OK. Let's narrow it down then. Will God take the life of the unsaved in order to send a message to his flock?

 

He has certainly done it many times before.

 

Let's take S&G then. Can we equate their sins to homosexuality?

 

Homosexuality certainly played a part, but it wasn't the whole story either.

[Jim Schue]

[h=2](Ephesians 5:21-32)[/h]

.21 and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ 22 Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. 24 But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her; 26 that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she should be holy and blameless. 28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body. 31 For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife; and the two shall become one flesh. 32 This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let each individual among you also love his own wife even as himself; and let the wife see to it that she respect her husband.

 

Great phrase, which also illustrates a big problem with the way some folks interpret the Bible. I'm assuming this is the go-to phrase for the anti-gay types? While this phrase extolls the virtues of marriage, it doesn't specifically address homosexuality, which throws the anti-gay line of justification back to Leviticus and its multitude of problems (I'm guessing there are lots who are anti-gay who just love shrimp and clothing made of multiple types of thread).

 

In addition, it's also been used at length over the years to wrongly justify the treatment of women as second-class citizens in our society -- the Baptist faith being among the most guilty of this, as far as Christian sects go, but there's plenty of blame to go around, and that includes the Catholic faith in which I was raised. In extreme cases, it's used as justification for spousal abuse.

[woodsrider]

The core belief is the same.