Abandoning the kicking game...

[jbwill2]

Some of the threads have talked about some teams having relatively weak kicking/punting games, and other teams having pretty solid kick/punt-returning abilities.

 

If a team with pretty bad/unreliable kicking and punting games is due to play a team with a very good return game, would that team ever consider NEVER punting or trying a FG attempt during the entire game (i.e. just "going for it" on every fourth down), no matter what the field position situation is? I think that high school teams (as opposed to college and pro teams) are more prone to going for it on fourth downs, but would a prep team ever decide to abandon the kicking/punting game altogether? Of course, you can't get around having to kick off at the start of each half and after scores.

 

The call in the Patriots-Colts game also had me thinking about this.

Edited November 19, 2009 by jbwill2

[ColonelMike]

I very definitely think some teams do this - and they sometimes cut off their noses to spite their faces!

 

Sometimes, all you wind up doing is to simply conceding team great field position after failing to get the first on fourth down or squib-kicking it to keep it away from the dangerous return man...

[Captain W F Call]

I have coached middle school for the past three years after spending the previous eleven coaching high school in Kentucky and Tennessee. We are one of the few middle school teams that can actually punt. We have won a couple of games because of the way we changed field position in a crucial moment.

[LUCK]

Does any one see the quick kick use much these days?

 

What about the swing or rugy style kick?

[h.s.footballfan]

Some of the threads have talked about some teams having relatively weak kicking/punting games, and other teams having pretty solid kick/punt-returning abilities.

 

If a team with pretty bad/unreliable kicking and punting games is due to play a team with a very good return game, would that team ever consider NEVER punting or trying a FG attempt during the entire game (i.e. just "going for it" on every fourth down)? I think that high school teams (as opposed to college and pro teams) are more prone to going for it on fourth downs, but would a prep team ever decide to abandon the kicking/punting game altogether? Of course, you can't get around having to kick off at the start of each half and after scores.

 

The call in the Patriots-Colts game also had me thinking about this.

 

 

I'll have to look for the article, but while in the waiting room in the doctors office i read a Sports Illistrated article about this topic. They interviewed a high school coach out west(can't remember where) that never punts or kicks field goals, no matter what his field position is. He doesn't even carry a punter/field goal kicker on the roaster. His winning percentage was pretty good and he actually won a state championship a couple years ago. He based this coaching style on a bunch of stats that he had prepared. I thought he was crazy at first, but after looking at the numbers, i almost agree with him.

[sportsfan41]

I'll have to look for the article, but while in the waiting room in the doctors office i read a Sports Illistrated article about this topic. They interviewed a high school coach out west(can't remember where) that never punts or kicks field goals, no matter what his field position is. He doesn't even carry a punter/field goal kicker on the roaster. His winning percentage was pretty good and he actually won a state championship a couple years ago. He based this coaching style on a bunch of stats that he had prepared. I thought he was crazy at first, but after looking at the numbers, i almost agree with him.

 

I'd be interested in seeing this article.

[1968isaac]

Our tailback used to "quick kick" on third and long from time to time. He would take the pitch on what looked like a sweep, then punt in motion of the sweep. It was very effective.

[sportsfan41]

I'm just not a fan of kicking on 3rd down unless it's 3rd and long and you've set it up well.

[Harry Doyle]

This is interesting, and when you think about it, this makes a lot of sense for some teams.

 

I firmly believe that unless you have a punter that is going to give you a 40-50 yard boom everytime, then why not go for it? Especially if it's less the 10 yards to get the first down.

 

Like it or not, it is what it is, but for the vast majority of high school teams, the punter on average is going to only give you about a 30 yard punt. Then when you factor in a return of 10-15 yards, what are you really gaining? 15-20 yards if that? I'm not saying do this if you are stuck on your own goal line, but if it's 4th and 8 on your own 35, and have an inconsistant punter/punt team, why not go for it?

 

As far as going for two point conversions all the time, I see the reasoning in that also. Like the punter, unless you have a kicker who is automatic everytime, why not go for two? Chances are that if you go for two, you're going to make 50% of them anyway, which would be the same result as kicking it and getting one everytime. Why not roll the dice, go for two, make 75% or better on them and that be the difference in ballgame(s)?

 

As for kicking off. If you don't have either A) One who can put it in the endzone or B) a kicker who can at least get it to the 15 with speed on the kick off team, why not on-side kick it?

 

Over the years I can't count how many times I've seen countless games and even seasons be hampered by poor kick-off teams. If you're kicking off to them and they return it to their 40 yard line or midfield more times than not, why not on-side kick it and take a chance on getting it back?

[LoveTheGame33]

I'm just not a fan of kicking on 3rd down unless it's 3rd and long and you've set it up well.

 

I truly don't see any reason other than mercy for kicking on third down. I prefer to get a linebacker into coverage and try to get the PI. Punting on third down seems to be :isurrender: IMO

[h.s.footballfan]

I'd be interested in seeing this article.

 

Here you go.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/highschool/11/04/no.punting.ap/index.html

 

"Let's take an example.

 

According to his data, a team that takes over the ball at its opponent's 10 or closer has a 92 percent chance of scoring a touchdown. A team that gains possession between its opponent's 40-yard line and its 31 has a 77 percent chance of scoring a touchdown.

 

So, Kelley figures, even if the Bruins fail to convert, he is only increasing his opponents' chances of scoring a TD by 15 percentage points more than if his team got off a decent punt. So why not go for it on fourth-and-8 from your own 6?

 

And, it should be noted, the Bruins convert about 50 percent of the time."

[CoachBuckett]

Does any one see the quick kick use much these days?

 

What about the swing or rugy style kick?

 

ABout 3 years ago FHS was playing Danville and FHS quick kicked on 3rd and forever. It was a great call because the ball rolled and pinned the ADS deep. As I was walking down the side lines a parent standing on the fence behind us yelled at me and said" Yo Coach are you stupid or what? It was only third down you need to pass the darn ball."

 

Just goes to show how many people don't understand the game.

 

But to answer your question yes.

[doubledeuce]

I do not know why some teams with not very good punters do not just try a field goal from any where on the field? Yo can move the holder back 10-15 yards and then try the field goal. Obviously when far away you do not have a chance but with the favorable bounce you tend to get from kicking off a block(or Tee) why not. If it goes into the endzone it comes out to the 20. You could still have "gunners" on the outside to cover. Plus it would be easier to directional kick to try and pin your opponents.By moving the holder back it would be harder to block. Also it doesn't matter that you moved your holder back since you are not attempting to make the field goal but just kick it further than you can punt it. Plus you have 2 guys back, the holder and the kicker so teams would have to play you more honest on D because of the different things you could do. Heck you could still rugby punt while having the threat of the option coming at the D.

 

I think this would be interesting in HS, now college and pros are different because they usually have very good punters that punt it high enough and deep enough to cover.

[doubledeuce]

Here you go.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/highschool/11/04/no.punting.ap/index.html

 

"Let's take an example.

 

According to his data, a team that takes over the ball at its opponent's 10 or closer has a 92 percent chance of scoring a touchdown. A team that gains possession between its opponent's 40-yard line and its 31 has a 77 percent chance of scoring a touchdown.

 

So, Kelley figures, even if the Bruins fail to convert, he is only increasing his opponents' chances of scoring a TD by 15 percentage points more than if his team got off a decent punt. So why not go for it on fourth-and-8 from your own 6?

 

And, it should be noted, the Bruins convert about 50 percent of the time."

 

But a much easier chance a making a FG!

[NEERFAN]

I do not know why some teams with not very good punters do not just try a field goal from any where on the field? Yo can move the holder back 10-15 yards and then try the field goal. Obviously when far away you do not have a chance but with the favorable bounce you tend to get from kicking off a block(or Tee) why not. If it goes into the endzone it comes out to the 20. You could still have "gunners" on the outside to cover. Plus it would be easier to directional kick to try and pin your opponents.By moving the holder back it would be harder to block. Also it doesn't matter that you moved your holder back since you are not attempting to make the field goal but just kick it further than you can punt it. Plus you have 2 guys back, the holder and the kicker so teams would have to play you more honest on D because of the different things you could do. Heck you could still rugby punt while having the threat of the option coming at the D.

 

I think this would be interesting in HS, now college and pros are different because they usually have very good punters that punt it high enough and deep enough to cover.

 

What's the actual rule? Doesn't the ball only come out to the 20 if the ball crosses the GL? Does it have to cross in the air or can it roll into the EZ and still come back to the 20?