Is this the next line for Kobe haters?

[mcpapa]

How about basketball is a TEAM sport? From management, to coaching, to players, it takes a fantastic effort from all parties for a team to win the NBA title.

 

You have hit on one of my beefs with the NBA. Maybe it's media-driven, but the team aspect of the league always seems to play second fiddle to individual matchups (Kobe vs. Lebron, Mamba vs. Superman, etc.).

[spindoc]

Congrats to the Lakers, Kobe, and especially HT,,,,enjoy!:thumb:

[Original Rookie]

Congrats to the LAKERS. THEY won it. Kobe didnt win it. Annoying.

 

Isn't there something to be said to all the people who said he couldn't do it without Shaq?

[CatsCatsCats]

For some reason, although LJ may be more popular, appealing, I personally over the years, think that Kobe is a better communicator. I just feel that he can utilize what he has, and fill the void or recognize what he doesn't. Where as I think LJ just expects that void to be recognized and filled by his front office. I dunno, just my take on it.

 

I sort of agree with this. But only about 1/2 way. Kobe knows that he, not Jerry Buss or Phil Jackson, runs the Lakers. He used that to get him some help. LeBron hasn't done that, but up until this season the Cavs have tried to put some players around him when possible. As far as utilizing what they have I don't know if you can say anyone does that better than LeBron, whether you think he's better than Kobe or not.

 

I am not a Kobe hater but answer this question. If Kobe and LeBron switched teams would Kobe win a championship with the Cavs? And if Lebron was a Laker with the same team Kobe had would he win?

 

If they switched, the Lakers win in 5, Cavs lose to the Magic. The Lakers have the pieces to win the title, the Cavs don't. Doesn't really matter if Kobe or LeBron is better there. LBJ had one of the greatest individual series of all-time and still couldn't beat an incomplete Magic team, what does that say about Big Z and co?

 

Isn't there something to be said to all the people who said he couldn't do it without Shaq?

 

Um, they were wrong?:thumb:

[PurplePride92]

I am not a Kobe hater but answer this question. If Kobe and LeBron switched teams would Kobe win a championship with the Cavs? And if Lebron was a Laker with the same team Kobe had would he win?

 

If they switched, the Lakers win in 5, Cavs lose to the Magic. The Lakers have the pieces to win the title, the Cavs don't. Doesn't really matter if Kobe or LeBron is better there. LBJ had one of the greatest individual series of all-time and still couldn't beat an incomplete Magic team, what does that say about Big Z and co?

 

 

I agree with CatsX3 take on the question.

[UKMustangFan]

No, it's "he couldn't have won without Pau", or "he can't win without a great big man". The haters turned the game off and went to bed early, they'll be out soon enough......until then.......................

 

Actually, at least in my case, I turned off the game and went to bed because of this thing called a job I have to be up at 6:30 AM every morning for....

 

Either way, I feel I'm far from a hater, and have actually grown to enjoy Kobe, however the constant whining and complaining by the Kobe apologists about people "hating" is really starting to make me dislike him again.

 

Anywho, congrats HT, your boy got it done!

[5wide]

Honestly I don't think he win's without Pau, could you plug someone else in? YES. Hoever when you look at the Magic, and what was missing, it was a PURE SG, that can dish, drive and shoot. Kobe can dish, drive, shoot, score, and play D. He's also the best player on the court. Howard was second best, but if he'd had some one at SG that could do what I mentioned CONSISTENTLY then it MAYYYYYYY have been a different story.

 

Honestly though I kinda think Kobe is very similar to Jordan in that you give him a good team, that can play ball and make some plays w/out too many mistakes, and your chances are good. I say that because when you look at it, there are people that played with both players that will likely end up in the hall of fame, and had they not played with Jordan/Bryant. They're likely just another "good player"

 

The team's that don't win are always missing something. Absolutely Orlando would have been better if they'd had a guy like Kobe or D-Wade at the #2.

 

I think LA would have been better with a guy like Chris Paul or Deron Williams at the point, but as it was, they were good enough with what they had.

[TrueBlueWildcat]

As bad as I hate to say it....Congrats!

[CatsCatsCats]

The team's that don't win are always missing something. Absolutely Orlando would have been better if they'd had a guy like Kobe or D-Wade at the #2.

 

I think LA would have been better with a guy like Chris Paul or Deron Williams at the point, but as it was, they were good enough with what they had.

 

The Magic would have to really rebuild there team if they had a really good 2. I don't know how well the team they have right now fits with that. I honestly think they're better without Nelson. They need a 2, they just don't need DWade or someone of that caliber. I think Ben Gordan would be a good fit, he is a combo guard, that can score and spot up.

[5wide]

The Magic would have to really rebuild there team if they had a really good 2. I don't know how well the team they have right now fits with that. I honestly think they're better without Nelson. They need a 2, they just don't need DWade or someone of that caliber. I think Ben Gordan would be a good fit, he is a combo guard, that can score and spot up.

 

Just responding to the post...that it may have been a different if Orlando had a SG who could dish, drive and shoot. Well, there aren't many of those guys and most of them are all-star players. Add another all-star to any team in the NBA finals and the chances improve.

 

The Magic aren't better without Nelson. It just looked bad in the finals because they tried to throw him back in after 4 months.

[bugatti]

Just responding to the post...

 

The Magic aren't better without Nelson. They were just better in the finals because they tried to throw him back in after 4 months.

:thumb:

[CatsCatsCats]

Just responding to the post...

 

The Magic aren't better without Nelson. They were just better in the finals because they tried to throw him back in after 4 months.

 

I think they are. Nelson, healthy or not limits Hedu's game. I think the Magic are better when Hedu is the play maker off the pick and roll. Nelson makes them more of a drive and kick team and takes out the size advantage that Turkoglu will have when he handles the ball. The Magic do not get past the KG-less Celtics or the Cavs with Nelson. They're better without him, just wait until next season you'll see a drop off from them, UNLESS Howard becomes a legit scorer.

[DragonFire]

Just responding to the post...that it may have been a different if Orlando had a SG who could dish, drive and shoot. Well, there aren't many of those guys and most of them are all-star players. Add another all-star to any team in the NBA finals and the chances improve.

 

The Magic aren't better without Nelson. It just looked bad in the finals because they tried to throw him back in after 4 months.

 

I very much agree with this. Had Nelson been there all along, they'd have been a better team. But if you get into a groove and a dynamic after a length of time, then it is disruptive to reintroduce a player into that mix. There are subtle and not subtle differences in the way you work with a certain player, and the Finals was ultimately proven to not be the time to do that.

 

They'd have lost anyway had Jameer not been thrown in, but it would have been interesting to see the difference. I believe we never saw the Orlando team that beat Cleveland show up. Part of that is that L.A. is a better team, especially defensively, part of that is that Orlando never hit shots against the Lakers that they did against Cleveland. Not just guarded ones, open ones.

[5wide]

I think they are. Nelson, healthy or not limits Hedu's game. I think the Magic are better when Hedu is the play maker off the pick and roll. Nelson makes them more of a drive and kick team and takes out the size advantage that Turkoglu will have when he handles the ball. The Magic do not get past the KG-less Celtics or the Cavs with Nelson. They're better without him, just wait until next season you'll see a drop off from them, UNLESS Howard becomes a legit scorer.

 

Yeah...because they were so bad with him this season prior to the injury.

 

With Nelson, they were 2-0 vs. LA. With a rusty Nelson, they lost 4 of 5.

 

This Magic team will never win a title with backcourt combos of Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee, Mickael Pietrus and JJ Redick. They're all role players. Pietrus is a solid bench guy. Nelson is the only guard they have that can consistently play at a high level.

 

Orlando got overhyped. They finally woke up and finished off a tired and undermanned Celtics team that they should have beat in 5 or 6. Then, they benefitted from a favorable matchup against a Cleveland team that absolutely refused to try anything different through 6 games.

 

Not to take anything away from the Magic...they finally started playing the way they should for about 8 games and they hit some clutch shots. But, against LA, they were matched up against a team that could not only match them across the board, but actually had advantages, the Lakers had depth, and they couldn't rely on average (at best) coaching to help them out because Phil is arguably the best ever.

[CatsCatsCats]

I very much agree with this. Had Nelson been there all along, they'd have been a better team. But if you get into a groove and a dynamic after a length of time, then it is disruptive to reintroduce a player into that mix. There are subtle and not subtle differences in the way you work with a certain player, and the Finals was ultimately proven to not be the time to do that.

 

They'd have lost anyway had Jameer not been thrown in, but it would have been interesting to see the difference. I believe we never saw the Orlando team that beat Cleveland show up. Part of that is that L.A. is a better team, especially defensively, part of that is that Orlando never hit shots against the Lakers that they did against Cleveland. Not just guarded ones, open ones.

 

I wouldn't say that LA is a better defensive team that Cleveland. I think that Odom is able to matchup with Lewis, and the Lakers have some size on the wings. Delonte West and Varajao's inability to guard Lewis and Turkoglu/Pietrus cost the Cavs. Against standard lineups the Cavs can guard with the best of them.

 

As for Nelson, we will see. I think the Cavs and Celtics are the 1 and 2 seeds again, and this time face off in the ECF.