My reference to sin was intentionally narrow. And no doubt, we all will continue to sin, especially me it seems. Thank God the Holy Spirit convicts us and leads us to feelings of guilt and repentence. In All Tell's example, his ficticious murderer seems to be using an expression of faith as a shield. Again, I contend that no one who is truly in touch with the Holy Spirit could commit such an act and feel no remorse. However, as I said, I can have an opinion concerning his salvation, but I'm not The One he will have to answer to.

 

:thumb:

I particularly felt the Matthew Scriptures were revealing. If one's judgement is worse than the others, it would seem that there is varying degrees of sin and the price that has to be paid for it.

 

I disagree here! There is only one price for my sin, unfortuntely it took the Son of God:cry:

I disagree here! There is only one price for my sin, unfortuntely it took the Son of God:cry:

 

You are correct in price paid for the sin.

 

The price I was referring to was the price for the sin IF YOU DIDN'T accept Christ as your Savior. It would seem that there is varying judgements on those who do not do this based on what the Matthew Scripture says.

You are correct in price paid for the sin.

 

The price I was referring to was the price for the sin IF YOU DIDN'T accept Christ as your Savior. It would seem that there is varying judgements on those who do not do this based on what the Matthew Scripture says.

 

That kinda goes back to an O.T theory, having to sacrifica duck, cow, ox, donkey for each of the different sins.

 

However, with the new covenant all sin is paid by the same price, therefore, all sin is the same... and here we go again:jump:

My mother was a devout Christian, and a Baptist. She believed 'once saved, always saved'. I asked her once why she didn't think someone could be saved, then fall from grace, and be re-saved. Her answer: "They were never saved to begin with, they just thought they were."

That kinda goes back to an O.T theory, having to sacrifica duck, cow, ox, donkey for each of the different sins.

 

However, with the new covenant all sin is paid by the same price, therefore, all sin is the same... and here we go again:jump:

 

No, it doesn't.

 

Two options. Accept Christ as Savior and your sins are paid for.

Don't accept Christ as Savior and your sins are not paid for.

 

What I was talking about was what happens after you get to Hell since you rejected Christ.

My bad misunderstood, but I was correct about my statement

Hard Scripture for the "once saved always saved" side.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[a]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

2 Peter 2:20-22 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"[a]and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

 

Don't you love the analogies in the Bible? A dog returns to its vomit. That is great.

The problem is with the premise of the question. It assumes that Salvation is a one time event "once saved" and a one time equation. That is what we have done with a savior whose primary goal was to teach us how to live, not how to get to heaven.

 

The scripture even tells us, I think it is probably Paul, that you have to work your salvation out daily. Salvation is not a one time event it is growing relationship with God, revealed most perfectly to us in Jesus.

 

See - we work to hard at setting up rules and deciding who will and who will not get into heaven - what we ned to work hard at is loving God BY loving our neighbor and therefore strengthening our relationship.

 

Who are any of us to say if the person who murdered the homosexual will go to heaven and again that is not what it is all about.

 

We even pray, in the Lord's prayer, not about us going to heaven - have you noticed that, never does it say 'help me get to heaven' - but about God's kingdom coming to earth. Salvation is a WAY of living - which is loving - If you read Matthew 25: 31 - 46 it says that those who are going to heaven are the ones that fed the hungry, visited the prisoner, gave drink to the thirsty, etc. - IT SAYS NOTHING about doctrine or belief, but about a WAY of life. Salvation is not about making a one time statement and believing one thing over another it IS about being a disciple and honoring God/Jesus by LIVING LIKE Jesus and therefore LOVING THOSE WHO CURSE YOU AND PRAYING FOR THOSE WHO ATTEMPT TO OPPRESS YOU.

 

The yoke is easy and the burden light (not a lot of rules and regulations to follow) but living a life of pure love is tough.

 

Is the bolded merely your own assertion or do you subscribe to some basis for it? What was the point of the death on the cross if all He was doing was telling us some nice fuzzy parables about how to live?

Is the bolded merely your own assertion or do you subscribe to some basis for it? What was the point of the death on the cross if all He was doing was telling us some nice fuzzy parables about how to live?

 

I have plenty of basis for it. By a way of living, I mean in unison with God, not simply (following the middle way or the 8 fold path). But if salvation was only about going to heaven why all of the lessons on how to live. And why does Matthew 25 not simply say "believe this doctrine and you will go to heaven". All of Matthew is drowning in the LOVE ETHIC - a WAY of living.

 

When Jesus says I am the WAY, I don't believe he is referring to a gate swinging open, but HE is the journey, the WAY of LIVING. Salvation is reconciliation with our creator and with God's creation. It is not fire insurance and was never intended to be about fire insurance. It is about bringing God's kingdom on earth. THY KINGDOM COME, THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH. How is that for a basis?

My mother was a devout Christian, and a Baptist. She believed 'once saved, always saved'. I asked her once why she didn't think someone could be saved, then fall from grace, and be re-saved. Her answer: "They were never saved to begin with, they just thought they were."

 

That is way I am looking at it. I always remember the verse someone posted on here earlier "not everyone who cries Lord Lord...." Among several others .....

Hard Scripture for the "once saved always saved" side.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[a]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

Brought back to repentance, not salvation. That is the way I always looked at that verse. Sure, Christians can sin after they are saved and they MUST repent if they have the chance.

 

I am not like some people I know that say the words, pray the prayer and then rest on their Laurels. Remember the Bible says (I don't know where and I am also paraphrasing) What is faith without works?

 

That is the beauty and the mystery of the Bible: Many different people can look at a scripture and see things differently. That is why some Catholics, Baptists, Penecostals, Lutherans, and Wesly.....Methodists:D along with other denominations will be in Heaven even though they may not agree.

Dog eats its vomit and the sow returns to the mud.

That is way I am looking at it. I always remember the verse someone posted on here earlier "not everyone who cries Lord Lord...." Among several others .....

Actually, how could you argue/debate her answer? You can't prove or disprove it. I didn't tell my mom that, though.