If that is your position, explain Judas. Will he be in heaven?

Deep, Deep, question? IMVHO, I believe that a person once is saved will always be saved unless, that person retracks his statement and denies Christ. I have been taught this all of my life, I don't know if there is any bibilical standing for this position but I will research it!

I've always envisioned that Judas went to Heaven. He was predestined to betray Jesus, and I believe he repented before he hung himself. He obviously regretted what he had done, was grief stricken, and believed that Jesus was the Son of God. I guess the next issue is, is suicide a forgivable sin?

http://www.ebc-paulding.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=34

Here is a link that explains our (Baptist) position.

I have never believed in this position.

I can not get into the link! Will someone type a summary of what it says? Pretty please?

I've always had a problem with that position.

 

I've used this annalogy before.

 

I have seen an interview with a man in prison who had killed a gay man. Not only was he unrepentant but he stated that he wholeheartedly believed that because he had been "saved" before the crime he would go to Heaven. Now if murder is a sin and this person not only admitted to it but didn't believe that what he had done was a sin I don't understand how anyone can say he should get into Heaven, yet when I used the annalogy before there were people here who told me that because he had accepted Christ he was indeed saved and would go to Heaven.

I've always had a problem with that position.

 

I've used this annalogy before.

 

I have seen an interview with a man in prison who had killed a gay man. Not only was he unrepentant but he stated that he wholeheartedly believed that because he had been "saved" before the crime he would go to Heaven. Now if murder is a sin and this person not only admitted to it but didn't believe that what he had done was a sin I don't understand how anyone can say he should get into Heaven, yet when I used the annalogy before there were people here who told me that because he had accepted Christ he was indeed saved and would go to Heaven.

 

I guess I don't follow. Are you saying that because he sinned after he was saved that he shouldn't get in? In that case we are all doomed. Accepting Christ is not a guarantee that you will sin no more.

Just because a person claims salvation does not necessarily make it so. My position and that of most Baptist's I've had this conversation with is that a person who can knowingly commit a sin, have the faculties to understand his crime, and feels no remorse nor need for repentance was most likely not saved to begin with. The Holy Spirit convicts those who are saved when they do wrong. However, his salvation whether real or imagined, if between him and his Maker.

I've always had a problem with that position.

 

I've used this annalogy before.

 

I have seen an interview with a man in prison who had killed a gay man. Not only was he unrepentant but he stated that he wholeheartedly believed that because he had been "saved" before the crime he would go to Heaven. Now if murder is a sin and this person not only admitted to it but didn't believe that what he had done was a sin I don't understand how anyone can say he should get into Heaven, yet when I used the annalogy before there were people here who told me that because he had accepted Christ he was indeed saved and would go to Heaven.

 

If a person commits sin and is unrepentant they have never truly experienced salvation. The Holy Spirit indwells those that are truly his and while we still sin in this earthly body we are grieved over it. Perhaps he just thinks he is saved because he made a profession of faith one time in his life. Salvation is by grace alone and if we have truly been saved we are saved to the uttermost.

Just because a person claims salvation does not necessarily make it so. My position and that of most Baptist's I've had this conversation with is that a person who can knowingly commit a sin, have the faculties to understand his crime, and feels no remorse nor need for repentance was most likely not saved to begin with. The Holy Spirit convicts those who are saved when they do wrong. However, his salvation whether real or imagined, if between him and his Maker.

 

I don't disagree that one might call himself saved and not be; certainly I think that's so. However, I think your reference to "sin" is very narrow, perhaps engendered by the murder example from earlier. "Sin" can refer to anything, whether it be unfairly yelling at your child or murdering another person. There are no degrees of sin, just sin. So all of us, even those of us who are saved, may continue to sin, fail, and disappoint God; the difference is not the sin, its the repentance.

I am going to stay FAR away from this thread..... after this post of course

 

Seriously though, allow me to explain something. I am a self-proclaimed "potpourri Christian" I have exlained it many times but if you are curious pm me.

 

I often go to a Holiness church but I believe more like the baptists. I do believe that once saved always saved with a few conditions.

1. Being saved is not just saying you are saved (I know what Revelations 3:20 says but I look at it somewhat differently). If you are TRULY saved the Holy Spirit will never leave you if you sin.

2. Exactly how much sin does it take for an individuals salvation to go away? To me, personally I have no Biblical evidence but only blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and suicide can be unforgivable. I think you can be forgiven and WILL be forgiven (if you ask for forgiveness) of any other sins.

 

If my post didn't make any sense it is because I have a class I need to run to. If you have any questions just ask me.

I guess I don't follow. Are you saying that because he sinned after he was saved that he shouldn't get in? In that case we are all doomed. Accepting Christ is not a guarantee that you will sin no more.

 

No, I am saying that he shouldn't get in because he is unrepentant for that sin but there are those that will argue that because he was "saved" he will get in no matter what.

No, I am saying that he shouldn't get in because he is unrepentant for that sin but there are those that will argue that because he was "saved" he will get in no matter what.

 

I would agree with them, but also with you that if he was unrepentant that it casts doubt on whether or not he was really saved.

 

I like to look at the question alternatively. Assume he was truly saved. How much sin is enough to wash away what the hand of God did?

IMVHO any that you have no remorse for.