Hard Scripture for the "once saved always saved" side.

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

 

 

4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[a]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

By your seeming interpretation of this verse, would it also be fair to say that a person who "loses their salvation" cannot get it back?

By your seeming interpretation of this verse, would it also be fair to say that a person who "loses their salvation" cannot get it back?

 

Not impossible but very difficult.

Not impossible but very difficult.

 

But, the verse you referenced said "impossible"...

 

If I'm to interpret that verse to mean that a person can lose their salvation, then I also have to interpret it to mean they can't get it back. There is no wiggle room.

Not impossible but very difficult.

 

So the death of Christ on the cross is only a "partial" payment for sin? I think is in direct conflict with His Word. Jesus PAID IT ALL. No works on the sinners part is needed. It is by grace with no additions necessary. However, a true regenerated sinner will manifest fruits of their salvation. These fruits are not manifest in order to work for our salvation but in appreciation of it --- so to speak. A person who has experienced the true saving Grace of God does not want to sin . . . they will however sin because of our nature. We are only free from sinning when we join Christ in Heaven and are released from our sinful, wicked flesh. Hallelujah!

http://www.ebc-paulding.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=46&Itemid=34

Here is a link that explains our (Baptist) position.

 

For the record, to make that kind of declarative, "all encompassing" statement about Baptists is like trying to nail jello to the wall. Baptists by their very definition are practitioners of local autonomy and the Priesthood of all Believers.

My mother was a devout Christian, and a Baptist. She believed 'once saved, always saved'. I asked her once why she didn't think someone could be saved, then fall from grace, and be re-saved. Her answer: "They were never saved to begin with, they just thought they were."

 

 

The perfect out to the argument. :thumb:

For the record, to make that kind of declarative, "all encompassing" statement about Baptists is like trying to nail jello to the wall. Baptists by their very definition are practitioners of local autonomy and the Priesthood of all Believers.

 

It was not my intention to offend. I apologize if that has happened. I am well aware of the many "varieties" of Baptists. So maybe I should have said many Baptists take this position. FYI I am an Independent Missionary Sovereign Grace Baptist. Some may even call us Landmark Baptists (as you have so diligently pointed out in a previous post) We believe a local, visible new testament body of believers constitutes a church. We do not believe in a Universal invisible body as the church. We believe that "The Church" that most dub all believers is actually the Family of God. We believe that salvation is by grace and not of any works and comes about when the Holy Spirit quickens the sinner and enables them to believe. I could go on and on but I won't. Once again, sorry if I offended you.

It was not my intention to offend. I apologize if that has happened. I am well aware of the many "varieties" of Baptists. So maybe I should have said many Baptists take this position. FYI I am an Independent Missionary Sovereign Grace Baptist. Some may even call us Landmark Baptists (as you have so diligently pointed out in a previous post) We believe a local, visible new testament body of believers constitutes a church. We do not believe in a Universal invisible body as the church. We believe that "The Church" that most dub all believers is actually the Family of God. We believe that salvation is by grace and not of any works and comes about when the Holy Spirit quickens the sinner and enables them to believe. I could go on and on but I won't. Once again, sorry if I offended you.

 

Sorry if my post seemed that way, it really wasn't my intent. :thumb:

 

I kind of figured your origins earlier and wish you the presence of God in your walk with Him.

 

My main intent was to remind everyone (not just you) that the title of Baptists has so many groups involved and personalities that it's hard to speak for them but some on the outside can believe the whole body can be summed up in a cohesive package. I live in Soutwest VA and I hated that Falwell seemed to define Baptists for others (or Al Mohler for that matter :irked:). He spoke only for himself and not the millions of Baptists out there.

 

Thanks for the reply Hounds. :thumb:

Sorry if my post seemed that way, it really wasn't my intent. :thumb:

 

I kind of figured your origins earlier and wish you the presence of God in your walk with Him.

My main intent was to remind everyone (not just you) that the title of Baptists has so many groups involved and personalities that it's hard to speak for them but some on the outside can believe the whole body can be summed up in a cohesive package. I live in Soutwest VA and I hated that Falwell seemed to define Baptists for others (or Al Mohler for that matter :irked:). He spoke only for himself and not the millions of Baptists out there.

 

Thanks for the reply Hounds. :thumb:

 

No problem and I am glad to "meet" you. If we don't meet here on this earth I am sure we will meet in Heaven someday. God Bless.

I've always envisioned that Judas went to Heaven. He was predestined to betray Jesus, and I believe he repented before he hung himself. He obviously regretted what he had done, was grief stricken, and believed that Jesus was the Son of God. I guess the next issue is, is suicide a forgivable sin?

So if I decide to murder my wife a long as I ask for forgiveness first then I can go ahead and take her out with a clear conscious ? Judas betrayed Christ. He in a since sent him to his death. We all are guilty but he betrayed him. Jesus tells us in matt. 26 or 27 ? that if we betray the Son of man it would be better for us if we had never been born.

If a person commits sin and is unrepentant they have never truly experienced salvation. The Holy Spirit indwells those that are truly his and while we still sin in this earthly body we are grieved over it. Perhaps he just thinks he is saved because he made a profession of faith one time in his life. Salvation is by grace alone and if we have truly been saved we are saved to the uttermost.

 

As long as we live the christian life that follows. If we fail then we have broken the vow we make to God when we give our life to him. God tells us never make a vow to God if we don't plan on keeping it. If we mess up at times we can ask God to forgive us for our lapse of sanity. But if we dont ask for forgiveness how can the Lord's blood cover us ?

I don't disagree that one might call himself saved and not be; certainly I think that's so. However, I think your reference to "sin" is very narrow, perhaps engendered by the murder example from earlier. "Sin" can refer to anything, whether it be unfairly yelling at your child or murdering another person. There are no degrees of sin, just sin. So all of us, even those of us who are saved, may continue to sin, fail, and disappoint God; the difference is not the sin, its the repentance.

 

Why do we need to repent if once we are saved we will never lose our salvation ? That would be pretty silly huh ?

"He who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46).

 

"See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).

 

"Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven’ (Matt. 7:21)."

 

By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother" (1 John 3:10),

 

"If any one says, ‘I love God,’ and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 John 4:20),

 

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome" (1 John 5:3)

 

And I am sure that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil. 1:6)

 

I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified" (1 Cor. 9:27).

 

heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately corrupt; who can understand it?" (Jer. 17:9).

 

Philippians 2:12 says, "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling

Great quotes.

Judas gave back the silver. He had to do what he did. He is in Heaven. He believed in Jesus. The word "Believe" is in the book of John 99 times.

 

See Revelation 3:25...I'm at the hotel and my Bible is in my bag in my room.

 

"Every knee will bow, every tongue will confess Jesus is LORD". This doesn't say SOME KNEES....

 

How you doing today buddy ? .....A lot of criminals would gladly give back what they stole just to avoid punishment. It doesn't mean they are truly sorry just sorry they got caught.

John 17

Jesus Prays for His Disciples

6"I have revealed you[a] to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me. 9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

 

Jesus indicates that Judas was lost and I would assume that would mean Hell.

Great researching there. I forgot about that verse.