Marvin Lewis speaks: Ocho Psycho, no on Odell and getting tougher

[IAmAFan]

I'm not sure what will happen, and that's why I haven't said much. He is continuing to be a problem, and he's not going to be back...

 

 

Marvin let that be known, but I don't understand why it hasn't been made public.

[gametime]

Marvin let that be known, but I don't understand why it hasn't been made public.

Most likely something with the NFLPA. It will be news soon enough...

[Pancake]

It was to my understanding that he is not taking his rehab seriously. One infraction that I was told he has broke several times is the drinking part. He is not allowed to have achohol till he is cleared to and he is living up the night life on a regular basis. He has not been caught yet by the NFL, but the whole organization knows about it and has had repeated talks with him.

[All Play No Work]

I think Marvin takes the Odell thing personally because he was doing everything possible to help Odell and nothing seemed to matter. With Pollack down and Odell gone looks like a linebacker in the draft.

[cvillecat]

Wasn't Marvin a big part of acquiring these players? It's his bed to make IMO.

He may be. Do we really know who has the most say in what takes place? I think he makes suggestions but I bet the final answer belongs with someone with a lkittle higher title. Acquring them is one thing keeping them is another.

[cvillecat]

Not saying he isn't, but if this is the case why does he continue to surround himself with people that are diametrically opposed to this type of behavior?

Maybe he does not have the final say in those decisions. We really don't know who has the final say.

Then again, you may be right. He may be the one that is behind all of the problems.

[Wildcat]

Not saying he isn't, but if this is the case why does he continue to surround himself with people that are diametrically opposed to this type of behavior?

 

 

Marvin Lewis said, "Your definition of character is different than my definition of character."

 

Many people want to make this overgenerality about character; most of the supposed "players with character problems" haven't been a problem, and others with no prior issues have had a problem.

 

Ahmad Brooks-no problems, Frostee Rucker-his incident was from his past and already known about(since-no issues)

 

Eric Steinbach-no previous issues; Deltha O'Neal-no previous character issues; Reggie McNeal-no previous issues; Mathias Askew-no previous issues

 

Is he supposed to have a crystal ball? No one can tell the future-the responsibility lies with the indidvidual!

 

He also said,"(the selfishness issues) are on every team; they just get talked about when you don't win."

 

The reporter asked about Carson & Willie's comments; Marvin replied, "How many teams have they been on?"

 

Unless you think he is downright lying, he knows what he is talking about.

 

He has done his research and homework on these players; he is not drafting them blindly. True, he was burned badly by Thurman, Henry, and Nicholson, but so far with the rest, there has not been a problem.

 

He said character matters because it does to him; he expects every player to abide by the laws of society.

 

No one knows who he passed over because he wasn't satisfied with what he was hearing from those close to these players either.

 

So please don't be like the uninformed masses and make these statements that are so easy when speaking in generalities and not specifics.

[Wildcat]

Maybe he does not have the final say in those decisions. We really don't know who has the final say.

Then again, you may be right. He may be the one that is behind all of the problems.

 

 

Very good point; Mike or Marvin did admit at one point in the early part of the season that a few times the two did not agree on a decision, but almost all the time they do.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Yet no one mentioned it, it's not on the news, and typically the NFL reports these things pretty quickly. If he's not complying I understand the comments Marvin made more, but this is the first I've heard of it.

Not sure that is accurate. Wasn't it mentioned that the Bengals knew since March/April that Odell was going to be suspended for at least part of the season but that wasn't mention till July.

[ladiesbballcoach]

Marvin Lewis said, "Your definition of character is different than my definition of character."

 

Many people want to make this overgenerality about character; most of the supposed "players with character problems" haven't been a problem, and others with no prior issues have had a problem.

 

Ahmad Brooks-no problems, Frostee Rucker-his incident was from his past and already known about(since-no issues)

 

Eric Steinbach-no previous issues; Deltha O'Neal-no previous character issues; Reggie McNeal-no previous issues; Mathias Askew-no previous issues

 

Is he supposed to have a crystal ball? No one can tell the future-the responsibility lies with the indidvidual!

 

He also said,"(the selfishness issues) are on every team; they just get talked about when you don't win."

 

The reporter asked about Carson & Willie's comments; Marvin replied, "How many teams have they been on?"

 

Unless you think he is downright lying, he knows what he is talking about.

 

He has done his research and homework on these players; he is not drafting them blindly. True, he was burned badly by Thurman, Henry, and Nicholson, but so far with the rest, there has not been a problem.

 

He said character matters because it does to him; he expects every player to abide by the laws of society.

 

No one knows who he passed over because he wasn't satisfied with what he was hearing from those close to these players either.

 

So please don't be like the uninformed masses and make these statements that are so easy when speaking in generalities and not specifics.

And yet Anthony Munoz, pretty good football player, was on national Fox Sports Radio yesterday saying that you can make the claim that off-the-field issues don't translate to the field you want but he is saying they do. If their decision-making, character issues off the field are questionable, it will translate to similar issues on the field.

[h.s.sportsrbest]

Wow, so much to get to:

 

* Frostee Rucker was a 3rd round pick that gave us nothing this year. Yes, he was hurt (shoulder) but at this point how can you know if the shoulder was that bad or he simply wasn't going to contribute so the IR was fine. Until he becomes a contributor, it's fair to question him. Most "experts" considered him a stretch where he was drafted, and the fact that he gave you nothing in year 1 makes him still a question mark. If your yard-stick is well, he hasn't been back to jail, then okay -- great pick.

 

* Brooks. Okay, again, no "issues", but also regressed during the season. Did he do anything past week 10 besides special teams? Maybe he becomes a star (hope he does), but for now he is yet another questionable pick that cost us a draft pick that brings more baggage than a 747. Again, okay, he hasn't gone to jail. What does he bring behind the scenes? Oh, that's right, you don't know that either (nor do I); who knows what kind of issues these guys create behind the scenes. When Munoz and Collinsworth continue to say that character problems have contributed to this team VASTLY under-achieving, there may be fire where there is smoke.

 

* Hmm? I think your "no previous issues" point could be used for the prosectution. How you ask? Guys with very little to no previous checkered past now are finding themselves in hot water legally after spending so much of their time with the batch of malcontents and hooligans they've been surrounded with. Bad apples spoil the tree, right?

 

* You are right, these grown men should be held responsible. You are right he has no crystal ball. However, continuing to try and play the role of Father Flanagan back-fired this year...big time.

 

* Yeah, Willie and Carson don't talk to other players, they are firmly wrapped in a cocoon of Bengaldom and have no sense of the goings-on of other teams. Hogwash.

 

* I'm not sure he isn't spinning (lying is a harsh word) to cover up the fact that a Super Bowl Contender missed the playoffs with bad losses and a locker room full of character guys pointing the fingers of blame at their team-mates.

 

* There are many people that believe the Bengals lack of college scouts has caused Marvin to go into Draft rooms with less than "all of the story" on many of these guys. Google can help you identify all of said stories. Here is one comment from John Czarnecki (covered the NFL for 20+ years):

 

The problem in Cincinnati is that head coach Marvin Lewis may not have all the facts on a specific player prior to the draft. If the Bengals had an ample supply of college scouts, I’m sure players like Nicholson would have a red flag next to their names.

 

* Given the guys he's drafted and their arrest records, who or what could he have possibly passed on?

 

* What generalities? He drafted Thurman, Henry, Rucker, Nicholson, and Brooks, all with HUGE ISSUES from their past. One was suspended for a season. One was out for 3 games and has been arrested 3 or 4 times in 18 months. One was a 3rd round pick that has given nothing and was considered a reach. One was arrested for breaking into his buddies place, and gave you nothing this year. One was basically handed a job out of necessity and played poorly enough to lose the starting job, then lose nearly any minutes at all (outside of special teams), and leave many questioning his speed in the open field to run down plays. I think that is fairly specific.

[pnthr4life]

Wow, so much to get to:

 

* Frostee Rucker was a 3rd round pick that gave us nothing this year. Yes, he was hurt (shoulder) but at this point how can you know if the shoulder was that bad or he simply wasn't going to contribute so the IR was fine. Until he becomes a contributor, it's fair to question him. Most "experts" considered him a stretch where he was drafted, and the fact that he gave you nothing in year 1 makes him still a question mark. If your yard-stick is well, he hasn't been back to jail, then okay -- great pick.

 

* Brooks. Okay, again, no "issues", but also regressed during the season. Did he do anything past week 10 besides special teams? Maybe he becomes a star (hope he does), but for now he is yet another questionable pick that cost us a draft pick that brings more baggage than a 747. Again, okay, he hasn't gone to jail. What does he bring behind the scenes? Oh, that's right, you don't know that either (nor do I); who knows what kind of issues these guys create behind the scenes. When Munoz and Collinsworth continue to say that character problems have contributed to this team VASTLY under-achieving, there may be fire where there is smoke.

 

* Hmm? I think your "no previous issues" point could be used for the prosectution. How you ask? Guys with very little to no previous checkered past now are finding themselves in hot water legally after spending so much of their time with the batch of malcontents and hooligans they've been surrounded with. Bad apples spoil the tree, right?

 

* You are right, these grown men should be held responsible. You are right he has no crystal ball. However, continuing to try and play the role of Father Flanagan back-fired this year...big time.

 

* Yeah, Willie and Carson don't talk to other players, they are firmly wrapped in a cocoon of Bengaldom and have no sense of the goings-on of other teams. Hogwash.

 

* I'm not sure he isn't spinning (lying is a harsh word) to cover up the fact that a Super Bowl Contender missed the playoffs with bad losses and a locker room full of character guys pointing the fingers of blame at their team-mates.

 

* There are many people that believe the Bengals lack of college scouts has caused Marvin to go into Draft rooms with less than "all of the story" on many of these guys. Google can help you identify all of said stories. Here is one comment from John Czarnecki (covered the NFL for 20+ years):

 

The problem in Cincinnati is that head coach Marvin Lewis may not have all the facts on a specific player prior to the draft. If the Bengals had an ample supply of college scouts, I’m sure players like Nicholson would have a red flag next to their names.

 

* Given the guys he's drafted and their arrest records, who or what could he have possibly passed on?

 

* What generalities? He drafted Thurman, Henry, Rucker, Nicholson, and Brooks, all with HUGE ISSUES from their past. One was suspended for a season. One was out for 3 games and has been arrested 3 or 4 times in 18 months. One was a 3rd round pick that has given nothing and was considered a reach. One was arrested for breaking into his buddies place, and gave you nothing this year. One was basically handed a job out of necessity and played poorly enough to lose the starting job, then lose nearly any minutes at all (outside of special teams), and leave many questioning his speed in the open field to run down plays. I think that is fairly specific.

 

Good post. However, I do believe we, as fans, will see much improvement from Brooks. He has the size and will get better under the defensive minded Marvin Lewis. Due to the Thurman mess and Pollack's unfortunate injury, he was put in the spotlight way too early. He will progress and become a solid linebacker.

[Wildcat]

Wow, so much to get to:

 

* Frostee Rucker was a 3rd round pick that gave us nothing this year. Yes, he was hurt (shoulder) but at this point how can you know if the shoulder was that bad or he simply wasn't going to contribute so the IR was fine. Until he becomes a contributor, it's fair to question him. Most "experts" considered him a stretch where he was drafted, and the fact that he gave you nothing in year 1 makes him still a question mark. If your yard-stick is well, he hasn't been back to jail, then okay -- great pick.

 

* Brooks. Okay, again, no "issues", but also regressed during the season. Did he do anything past week 10 besides special teams? Maybe he becomes a star (hope he does), but for now he is yet another questionable pick that cost us a draft pick that brings more baggage than a 747. Again, okay, he hasn't gone to jail. What does he bring behind the scenes? Oh, that's right, you don't know that either (nor do I); who knows what kind of issues these guys create behind the scenes. When Munoz and Collinsworth continue to say that character problems have contributed to this team VASTLY under-achieving, there may be fire where there is smoke.

 

* Hmm? I think your "no previous issues" point could be used for the prosectution. How you ask? Guys with very little to no previous checkered past now are finding themselves in hot water legally after spending so much of their time with the batch of malcontents and hooligans they've been surrounded with. Bad apples spoil the tree, right?

 

* You are right, these grown men should be held responsible. You are right he has no crystal ball. However, continuing to try and play the role of Father Flanagan back-fired this year...big time.

 

* Yeah, Willie and Carson don't talk to other players, they are firmly wrapped in a cocoon of Bengaldom and have no sense of the goings-on of other teams. Hogwash.

 

* I'm not sure he isn't spinning (lying is a harsh word) to cover up the fact that a Super Bowl Contender missed the playoffs with bad losses and a locker room full of character guys pointing the fingers of blame at their team-mates.

 

* There are many people that believe the Bengals lack of college scouts has caused Marvin to go into Draft rooms with less than "all of the story" on many of these guys. Google can help you identify all of said stories. Here is one comment from John Czarnecki (covered the NFL for 20+ years):

 

The problem in Cincinnati is that head coach Marvin Lewis may not have all the facts on a specific player prior to the draft. If the Bengals had an ample supply of college scouts, I’m sure players like Nicholson would have a red flag next to their names.

 

* Given the guys he's drafted and their arrest records, who or what could he have possibly passed on?

 

* What generalities? He drafted Thurman, Henry, Rucker, Nicholson, and Brooks, all with HUGE ISSUES from their past. One was suspended for a season. One was out for 3 games and has been arrested 3 or 4 times in 18 months. One was a 3rd round pick that has given nothing and was considered a reach. One was arrested for breaking into his buddies place, and gave you nothing this year. One was basically handed a job out of necessity and played poorly enough to lose the starting job, then lose nearly any minutes at all (outside of special teams), and leave many questioning his speed in the open field to run down plays. I think that is fairly specific.

 

Rucker, a reach? by people not affiliated with an NFL team!!!!! He gave us nothing because of an injury! So now Marvin's supposed to predict those too??? Are you serious?? Whitworth was a reach too, so was Madieu Williams, so was Caleb Miller. I wasn't even considering the drafted players and their abilities; I read the stuff because I am interested, but they don't know much compared the Bengals's coaching staff or any other; they have proven that with their drafts.

 

So how indeed was Brooks handed the job, and then how did he play so poorly, with all those recored tackles I might add, and then lose it????? No one is questioning his speed either; Marvin mentioned his name as specifically a bright spot for the season, but I guess that was "spinning" also!!!

Brooks lost his job because he hasn't totally learned the system; it was more a matter of Miller gaining the job than Brooks losing it; Miller started against N.O. because the Bengals wanted more speed at LB; remember he wasn't here until after the supplemental draft, so he didn't have a chance in the Spring to learn, which in the NFL is huge because of the complexities and adjustments to formations and motion and everything else offenses throw at players. He has shown he will be a player period.

 

Anthony Munoz is a saint; of course he is going to say that, but he has no idea about what is going on inside the Bengals' lockerroom in 2006! And Collinsworth doesn't either; he works for HBO, NBC, NFL network, coaches his kids' teams and watches his daughter play soccer. When has he even been in Cincy, other than to spend time with his wife during the week?(I know he did one Thursday night game)He has no specific knowledge either!!!

 

Father Flannagan- so who would the Bengals have drafted that would have satisfied you to replace the production of Odell last season and Henry this season?????? Henry and Thurman made the bad choices, not Marvin Lewis. If you want to criticize the draft picks, who should have been taken; you see it is easy to criticize without offering solutions!!

 

Backfired- there is absolutely no concrete evidence to support that; they didn't make the playoffs; that had more to do with Carson returning from a devastating knee injury; Braham, the most important position on the OL going down; Jones, Carson's backside being injured for most of the year; Tory and Deltha not performing; Jackson's injury for a chunk of the season; the defense just not performing; it had nothing to do with character!

 

So Willie and Carson talking to other players is the same as Marvin's experience at Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Washington, & Cincy- give me a break.

 

"a batch of hooligans and malcontents in a room their surrounded with" REALLY?? -Carson, Jeremi, Rudi, Reggie, TJ, Chad, Willie, Bobbie, Eric, Levi, Andrew, Richie, Sam, Bryon, John, Justin, Caleb, Brian, Landon, Tory, Dexter, Madieu, Jonathon, Stacy, Scott K., Anthony M., Kenny, Tony, Glenn, Domata, Robert, Shaun, Andre, Marcus, Ethan, Kevin, Kyle, Shane, Brad- you mean those thugs???? Your exagerrations have no merit!

 

"A room full of characters pointing the fingers at teammates for their losses." Again an extremely over-hyped overgeneralization that can not be proven with anything concrete. Marvin said it, "It becomes an issue when you lose."

 

Scouts- it was Marvin's idea for his coaches to do the scouting; he likes that idea, although they still have more scouts than they did under the previous regime(Cooper, Tobin, Coslett)

 

How can you fault scouting??? Carson, Eric S., Jeremi, Chris P., Madieu, Caleb, Landon, Stacy, Scott K., David, Robert, Eric G.Shaun(college FA), Jonathon, Andrew, Domata, Glenn(college FA), Ethan!!!!!

 

If you don't think Marvin Lewis has all the info on players, then you really don't know what you are talking about. The more I read, the more I realize the people outside the NFL organizations REALLY don't know what they are talking about! It's all about selling and money-not about real football.

 

Did you realize who has had the most off the field problems next to the Bengals? Chicago and SD, the 2 #1 seeds- the character argument is a joke. Yeah, like Cincy takes all the bad guys!!! They couldn't possibly have passed on any bad players!!!

 

I can't believe you have bought into the Cincy media who have no clue and have nothing to talk about but this stuff to sell newspapers. They're just upset that they aren't smart enough to figure out questions that Marvin will answer, that won't jeopardize the team. That's their way to get back at him becaue he gets perturbed by their continual demonstration of their lack of football knowledge. Mark Curnutte, Chick Ludwig, Kevin Goheen, Richard Skinner, Tom Gamble, Andy Furman HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE GAME OF FOOTBALL- playing or coaching it!

[cshs81]

Marvin needs to define for us what he means by "character." I think the majority of us hear him say it and then wonder if its just lip service when we see who he picks up including the newest kid who spent 258 days in jail on assault and theft charges. I guess there is "character" and then there is "football character."

[HHSDad]

Two questions:

 

1) Would a different head coach be more successful with the Bengals?

 

2) Would Marvin be more successful elsewhere?

 

My questions focus on Marvin's personality vs. the Bengals personality, not on his coaching skills.