Fire On I-75/I-71 Brent Spence Bridge Shuts Down Bridge

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

1 hour ago, GrantNKY said:

I don’t care when they say the bridge will re-open. That bridge has been a death trap my entire life. Every time I drive over it, I worry. That bridge needs way more work than they could possibly get done in the next month. 

There are a few things that give me faith in the evaluation of the bridge as being overall "structurally sound".

1) The bridge may be 57 years old, but that doesn't even remotely begin to make it innately "rickety" or poorly designed. The fact is, the Brent Spence is incredibly WELL designed. The thing that makes it such a dangerous bridge is the fact that it was designed to carry a single 3-lane expressway, and instead it's carrying two 4-lane expressways worth of traffic.

2) Bridges are "over-designed". Meaning they are designed to carry much more than need be. If they are going to have to hold 800,000 tons of dynamic load, then (just pulling numbers out of the air here) they are designed to carry 1,200,000 tons of dynamic load in case something adverse happens...like the Waterfront Restaurant breaking loose and drifting down the river into the Brent Spence pilings, or a tractor-trailer of caustic potash burning on the bridge.

3) The temperature at which cement begins to spall and burn is 212°F. The temperature at which steel melts is 1500°F. Those are drastically different temperatures, and the temperature of the fire on the bridge is estimated to have been around 800°F. The majority of the bridge steel is more than likely just going to need a good paint job prevent future rusting. The concrete, obviously, needs to be removed and replaced. That's doable within a month. Tall order, but doable.

4) Any engineer that signs off on the inspections has a lot to risk. A LOT. Legal precedent has developed in the United States in the last 20 years to allow for people to sue the estates of architects and engineers in the event of catastrophic failure of a structure they designed that leads to the injury or death of anyone. Meaning...even if the architect/engineer is dead and buried, if a building or bridge they designed falls down and kills someone, then the kids or grandkids of that architect/engineer can be sued for wrongful death. That's an incredibly scary legal precedent to have, if you ask me, but it is one that exists. The end product of that, though, is that in the last 20 years, our buildings and structures in the United States are all EXTREMELY "over-designed" when architects and engineers are involved in order to reduce risk. Now, granted the Brent Spence was built 57 years ago and not within the last 20 years, but the inspections that have taken place in the last week following the fire have to be signed off on by a team of structural and civil engineers, and those guys are now all on the hook for giving their thumbs up, so now they all have thrown their hat in the ring to assume liability for the catastrophic failure of the bridge. Believe me when I say that those folks are making sure the bridge is really, really, REALLY actually safe before they give the go ahead.

[TheDeuce]

16 minutes ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

Meaning...even if the architect/engineer is dead and buried, if a building or bridge they designed falls down and kills someone, then the kids or grandkids of that architect/engineer can be sued for wrongful death. That's an incredibly scary legal precedent to have, if you ask me, but it is one that exists.

That is beyond wild and incredibly ridiculous, IMO.

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

11 minutes ago, TheDeuce said:

That is beyond wild and incredibly ridiculous, IMO.

Agreed. My engineer dad, two architect brothers, and architect sister-in-law would all agree with you very much as well.

[theguru]

Thanks for all that information CWB and I with everyone here, the legal aspect is crazy talk, no way it should be anything close to that.  It sounds like some "Bizzaro World" vicarious liability. 

[Colonels_Wear_Blue]

The inspection team determined that there are some beams they want replaced because of minor heat warping. I spoke to an estimator with a steel contractor who bid on the work today. His company was not the awarded steel contractor, but to paraphrase, he told me, "I didn't see any warping on anything aside from the steel expansion joint in the road surface, but they said replace the beams, so the beams are being replaced." To me, that's some confirmation of what I suspected as far as the repair being over-designed to mitigate any risk.

The contract for the work has been let, estimated at $3.1 Million and not to exceed $12 Million. The steel beams were ordered last week from four separate mills (they had to go to 4 different mills to be able to find the stock already on-hand) and they'll be arriving this week at the fabricator's yard in Frankfort, KY for preparation.

[theguru]

1 minute ago, Colonels_Wear_Blue said:

The inspection team determined that there are some beams they want replaced because of minor heat warping. I spoke to an estimator with a steel contractor who bid on the work today. His company was not the awarded steel contractor, but to paraphrase, he told me, "I didn't see any warping on anything aside from the steel expansion joint in the road surface, but they said replace the beams, so the beams are being replaced." To me, that's some confirmation of what I suspected as far as the repair being over-designed to mitigate any risk.

The contract for the work has been let, estimated at $3.1 Million and not to exceed $12 Million. The steel beams were ordered last week from four separate mills (they had to go to 4 different mills to be able to find the stock already on-hand) and they'll be arriving this week at the fabricator's yard in Frankfort, KY for preparation.

You are a walking talking fountain of information on this Dubs! 

[GrantNKY]

27 minutes ago, theguru said:

You are a walking talking fountain of information on this Dubs! 

Agreed CWB is killing it with the updates on the bridge. 

[theguru]

[nkypete]

2 hours ago, theguru said:

Looks about ready!  Paging Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock.

[theguru]

[theguru]

[theguru]

Almost, here is a view from the Ohio side:

[theguru]

And from the KY side:

[Kentucky Windage]

This bridge is much like the vaccine for me. I'm going to hold off for about 6 months before I take my chances on it. 

[FatNate]

I hope to be on it this evening, after work!