Jesus Would Approve of Same-Sex Marriage

[hidinout]

from above " I understand the human nature and tendency of human religions to believe that their truth is the only real truth, for otherwise why would they even bother. If they taught elements of doubt within their belief system it could only stand to threaten the core when you want your followers believe without question."

 

FWIW my church , its pastor , and its assist pastors encourage people to question the Bible . Study it , examine , ask questions about it . Because it will always provide real truth . Yeah there are tons of questions , difficult topics , etc etc . Some are what our church calls open handed stuff ... how many times you offer communion .. once saved always saved .. what predestination means . But items such as Jesus being the only way for salvation , the holy trinity , and others are closed handed items . To the open handed stuff all discussion is good . and encouraged . BUT I know in the past churches have bad to act like " Its our way or the hell highway "

[mcpapa]

from above " I understand the human nature and tendency of human religions to believe that their truth is the only real truth, for otherwise why would they even bother. If they taught elements of doubt within their belief system it could only stand to threaten the core when you want your followers believe without question."

 

FWIW my church , its pastor , and its assist pastors encourage people to question the Bible . Study it , examine , ask questions about it . Because it will always provide real truth . Yeah there are tons of questions , difficult topics , etc etc . Some are what our church calls open handed stuff ... how many times you offer communion .. once saved always saved .. what predestination means . But items such as Jesus being the only way for salvation , the holy trinity , and others are closed handed items . To the open handed stuff all discussion is good . and encouraged . BUT I know in the past churches have bad to act like " Its our way or the hell highway "

 

What about other religious treatises? Quran, Torah, etc.?

 

My guess is no, and it makes sense that the answer would be no, but I'm curious.

[formerkywrestler]

Kept a few of these for hard times obviously:

 

My Granny --- who has never had a drink in her life --- was telling me about these the other day.

[MayfieldFan]

I don't think Jesus would approve now...but he will in the not too distant future.

People have always made their religious beliefs conform to their personal beliefs. An example, out of many possibilities is slavery. Many a sermon was preached about how owning slaves was a Christian duty. Back then, Jesus approved of slavery. But he doesn't now, because people have different beliefs now.

The same thing will happen with same sex marriages, in fifty years, nobody will care and fewer still will even remember that it was ever an issue. At that point, Jesus will be in favor of them.

[PP1]

I don't think Jesus would approve now...but he will in the not too distant future.

People have always made their religious beliefs conform to their personal beliefs. An example, out of many possibilities is slavery. Many a sermon was preached about how owning slaves was a Christian duty. Back then, Jesus approved of slavery. But he doesn't now, because people have different beliefs now.

The same thing will happen with same sex marriages, in fifty years, nobody will care and fewer still will even remember that it was ever an issue. At that point, Jesus will be in favor of them.

 

Not sure I agree. I also have never heard a sermon where a preacher taught that owning slaves was a christian duty. I've heard people criticize the Bible over the issue of slavery though.

[MayfieldFan]

i have never heard such a sermon either, however, they were quite common prior to the civil war.

[MayfieldFan]

reply to pp1:

 

i have never heard such a sermon either, however, they were quite common prior to the civil war.

 

a link to a usa today article, which shows that religious leaders at the time argued that the bible either supported slavery, or the other way around, depending on if they were in the north or south.

In Civil War, the Bible became a weapon - USATODAY.com

 

i am not taking an opinion on what the Bible says on either issue, just saying that people make religion into what they want it to be; thus the changing views over time

[mcpapa]

My Granny --- who has never had a drink in her life --- was telling me about these the other day.

 

She wasn't missing anything with the Billy Beer. Swill.

[mcpapa]

Not sure I agree. I also have never heard a sermon where a preacher taught that owning slaves was a christian duty. I've heard people criticize the Bible over the issue of slavery though.

 

I think that was the point. A few generations ago, you probably would have heard it repeatedly.

[PP1]

I think that was the point. A few generations ago, you probably would have heard it repeatedly.

 

Probably more than a few generations. Before we understood hermeneutics, discovered the dead sea scrolls, and used the Rosetta stone. Now we have a clearer understanding of what the Bible says. And for the most part, the Bible says pretty much the same thing the church has always believed it said. Which I believe confirms the validity of it.

[MayfieldFan]

Probably more than a few generations. Before we understood hermeneutics, discovered the dead sea scrolls, and used the Rosetta stone. Now we have a clearer understanding of what the Bible says. And for the most part, the Bible says pretty much the same thing the church has always believed it said. Which I believe confirms the validity of it.

 

I am not questioning the sincerity of your comment here, but EVERY generation of Christians has believed, just as sincerely as you believe, that they have in hand the true meaning of the Bible.

And while your comment may be sincere, it misses the mark by a good bit in terms of historical accuracy. Christians' views of what the Bible says, and the churches' positions, have been changing the entire time. Slavery was just one example. Same sex marriage is another. It's changing now, polls show it. Not just for the population at large, but for Christians too.

Other issues, off the top of my head, where views about their religion have changed by Christians.....working on Sunday, divorce, methods of punishment of children, tattoos, whether suicide dooms you to hell, whether women can speak in church, interracial marriages. Plenty of others.

[PP1]

I am not questioning the sincerity of your comment here, but EVERY generation of Christians has believed, just as sincerely as you believe, that they have in hand the true meaning of the Bible.

And while your comment may be sincere, it misses the mark by a good bit in terms of historical accuracy. Christians' views of what the Bible says, and the churches' positions, have been changing the entire time. Slavery was just one example. Same sex marriage is another. It's changing now, polls show it. Not just for the population at large, but for Christians too.

Other issues, off the top of my head, where views about their religion have changed by Christians.....working on Sunday, divorce, methods of punishment of children, tattoos, whether suicide dooms you to hell, whether women can speak in church, interracial marriages. Plenty of others.

 

Individuals more than church doctrine. Sometimes individuals started churches that branched off to other churches which preached different apologetics. For example, the doctrine of the Restoration Church of Christ never held that suicide dooms one to hell, there may have been individuals that had that belief, but not the church.

 

Polls may show that people's attitudes towards same-sex marriage is changing, but not church doctrine. There are individual churches that support people to have their own opinion on the issue (UCC, maybe episcopal, and I think the Disciples of Christ), but those churches have always had that level of autonomy.

 

And even these churches that consider themselves to be more liberal or free thinking churches acknowledge that the Bible hasn't changed. They just think that the Bible does not have to be the source of what they believe. I know this because I was apart of that whole movement from 2001-2006. IT was called "God is still speaking"

 

I personally have changed my beliefs that last ten years when it comes to suicide, homosexuality, divorce, women in the church, and other things (not slavery). I found myself being more strict than the Bible demanded of me. The message of the Bible did not change, nor did church doctrine, it was me that changed.

 

I do not feel like starting over so in order to clarify something, when I mean church doctrine, I am talking about individual denominational apologetics. I know that Catholic doctrine is not the same as Baptist doctrine, etc.

[Hatz]

Not sure I agree. I also have never heard a sermon where a preacher taught that owning slaves was a christian duty. I've heard people criticize the Bible over the issue of slavery though.

 

Then you haven't looked very hard. Let me recommend "Slaves, Sabbath, War and Women." It presents writings and sermons for each position.

 

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/178684.Slavery_Sabbath_War_and_Women

[PP1]

Then you haven't looked very hard. Let me recommend "Slaves, Sabbath, War and Women." It presents writings and sermons for each position.

 

Slavery, Sabbath, War and Women: Case Issues in Biblical Interpretation by Willard M. Swartley ? Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists

 

I haven't looked at all. But I have probably heard 30,000 sermons in my life and have never heard one that taught that Owning a Slave was a Christian Duty.

 

I actually preached about the Sabbath Day a few days ago, it will be posted soon.

 

The book you posted seems to be a collection of case studies, not sermons that you would hear in a church. But I have not read the book or know anything about it.

[Hatz]

I haven't looked at all. But I have probably heard 30,000 sermons in my life and have never heard one that taught that Owning a Slave was a Christian Duty.

I actually preached about the Sabbath Day a few days ago, it will be posted soon.

 

The book you posted seems to be a collection of case studies, not sermons that you would hear in a church. But I have not read the book or know anything about it.

 

And therein is the problem. They were preaching before your life. And much of what was preached was from a hermeneutic that affirmed slavery. The book shares the words of Presbyterians from Norfolk and Episcopalians from Vermont.

 

But if you want something more "modern," how about WA Criswell?

 

In 1956, Criswell railed against the Supreme Court's landmark Brown v. Board of Education ruling. Integration, Criswell argued, was "foolishness" and "idiocy."

 

Criswell saved some of his harshest words for the NAAACP. In one crude remark, he made a clumsy attempt at humor that wouldn't have been out of place at a KKK rally:

 

"Why the NAACP has got those East Texans on the run so much," he said, "that they dare not pronounce the word 'chigger' any longer. It has to be 'cheegro.'(sic)"

 

All white Southerners wanted, Criswell argued, was to be simply left alone:

 

"Don't force me by law, by statute, by Supreme Court decision ... to cross over in those intimate things where I don't want to go. Let me build my life. Let me have my church. Let me have my school. Let me have my friends. Let me have my home. Let me have my family"

 

Indeed, reading quotes like this makes it clear that Criswell believed that Southern whites were the victims and that they were the ones whose rights were somehow being infringed.

 

He only occupied the largest SBC church in America at the time. First Dallas.