Does Lebron James have to......

[mexitucky]

Also, I want to add, LeBron is the greatest package as an athlete/player that I have ever seen. His strength is what separates him from Jordan, not by as much as people want to believe, but it is. They have similar attributes everywhere else and LeBron has 2" and about 30lbs on MJ.

[bugatti]

Also, I want to add, LeBron is the greatest package as an athlete/player that I have ever seen. His strength is what separates him from Jordan, not by as much as people want to believe, but it is. They have similar attributes everywhere else and LeBron has 2" and about 30lbs on MJ.

 

Honestly, that is why LeBron is an enigma to me. He is the ultimate genetic freak. Personally I don't think he has ever used his physical stature to dominate the way he could. If he wanted he could put down his head and drive to the lane every play. He prefers to play along the perimeter and create.

Edited June 3, 2015 by bugatti

[HammerTime]

Are the Finals over yet?

[PurplePride92]

That is one man's opinion. He has a ton of good ones, but I don't buy this one. DeCourcy is biased when it comes to LeBron. We've already argued the counter point to a lot of this.

 

Paragraph 8. That point is flawed. Nobody knows how many Finals in a row the Bulls make if Jordan doesn't retire. Additionally, allow players in the 60s, 70s, and 80s move freely between teams. Finally, let's TOTALLY forget that James is playing with another former pick #1 in Irving and Olympic teammate Kevin Love joined this year. Let's act like DWayde hadn't already won in 2005. Let's forget that Chris Bosh was an Olympic Team member and brought in in Free Agency to specifically spread the floor. He was the Single Driving Force, however, the wheels on those vehicles were very good.

 

Paragraph 12. Again, there is no way to know this. What if Jordan signs with the Knicks in Free Agency after '93? You are telling me that he doesn't "take your'u and beat his'un?" Come one. It wasn't like LeBron went to the Heat and they had nobody, and it isn't like the Cavs only brought in LeBron and played in the West.

 

Paragraph 14. His argument here is that he was single handily responsible for the 42 game swing in wins and losses, b/c the cast was SIMILAR. He makes a valid point, but acts like everything just passed into the next season in a vacuum, and doesn't present any other contributing factors. In 2008-2009, the year that he quotes, the 2nd best team in his division were the Bulls at 41-41. The year after he left, the Bulls went 62-20, and the EAST as a whole had a pretty good year considering their last 15. That played a huge part as well. Additionally, when Jordan left in '93, the Bulls still had Pippen, brought in Kukoc, had All stars and weren't all that bad of a team. Let's not forget their coach. That being said, everyone forgets what happened in '98 to the Bulls and how long it took for them to get back.

 

Paragraph 19. What does Larry Hughes scoring average in the 2007 Finals have to do w/ this argument? They were swept. It just shows how weak overall the East was compared to the West. The Cavs wouldn't have gotten out of the second round in the West, if even that far. We already know that he led a bad team to the Finals in a bad conference and he had a bad series. Not exactly sure why he adds this in there. It was not a series that leads credence to knighting the King as GOAT.

 

Paragraph 20. Yeah, the only reason that J.R. Smith and Shumpert improved was b/c of LeBron. Had nothing to do with getting out of the toxic ooze that surrounds MSG. Nothing to do with not playing with Anthony, or the distraction of the New York lifestyle (see Smith, J.R.). Purely b/c they got to share court time with LeBron that they have had a good playoff run. Smith never played in an All Star game prior to coming.

 

This wasn't DeCoursy's greatest argument. Really it was an opinion piece that did nothing to squelch debate. It only opened it up for us Jordanites who have very valid counter points to what he throws out.

 

Come on, Mex. Jordanites are worse than Kobe fans. Let's not even talk about biased fans. :lol2:

 

 

If folks are going to hold Lebron's Dallas Finals performance against him then MJ's retirement HAS to be held against him.

[mexitucky]

How do those two items compare to each other?

[PurplePride92]

According to 538 the 07 and 15 Cavaliers are the second worst and third worst teams to ever play in the Finals. The 97 Bulls are the second best team.

 

Lebron does more with less......

[PurplePride92]

How do those two items compare to each other?

 

MJ flaked out and everybody poo poos it like it was nothing. Lebron flaked out and folks want to burn him at the stake. Why is MJ's flake-out always glossed over like it is okay? Folks say, what if MJ never retired....blah blah blah. What if Lebron would have actually played with a pair that series? What if...what if...what if.....that's how those two items compare. Ifs don't count in any debate.

[bugatti]

According to 538 the 07 and 15 a abs are the second worst and third worst teams to ever play in the Finals. The 97 Bulls are the second best team.

 

Lebron does more with less......

I concur. I think he elevates other due to the match-up nightmare that he is.

 

The '07 I can buy. The '15 I am not buying nor am I sure how they came up with those numbers. I think Cleveland has a pretty darn good roster. The funny thing is, LeBron has not played well this post-season. His teammates have been doing some good work.

[mexitucky]

According to 538 the 07 and 15 a abs are the second worst and third worst teams to ever play in the Finals. The 97 Bulls are the second best team.

 

Lebron does more with less......

 

We've been over the '07 season. They were swept in the Finals and it wasn't close. He did more with less, but was the benefactor of a terrible conference.

[mexitucky]

MJ flaked out and everybody poo poos it like it was nothing. Lebron flaked out and folks want to burn him at the stake. Why is MJ's flake-out always glossed over like it is okay? Folks say, what if MJ never retired....blah blah blah. What if Lebron would have actually played with a pair that series? What if...what if...what if.....that's how those two items compare. Ifs don't count in any debate.

 

You cemented my point. LeBron played very poorly in front of everyone in a crucial series, when his team needed him most. We all saw that happened. My issue w/ DeCoursey's point about the # of consecutive Finals appearances is that he doesn't take into account the fact that LeBron switched teams 2xs to get there. There wasn't free agency for guys to jump around with.

[PurplePride92]

We've been over the '07 season. They were swept in the Finals and it wasn't close. He did more with less, but was the benefactor of a terrible conference.

 

Some say the NBA as a whole was weaker when MJ went on his staggered run in the 90s.

[PurplePride92]

You cemented my point. LeBron played very poorly in front of everyone in a crucial series, when his team needed him most. We all saw that happened. My issue w/ DeCoursey's point about the # of consecutive Finals appearances is that he doesn't take into account the fact that LeBron switched teams 2xs to get there. There wasn't free agency for guys to jump around with.

 

And MJ took off two years because he was scared of Hakeem at his peak.

[mexitucky]

Some say the NBA as a whole was weaker when MJ went on his staggered run in the 90s.

 

Late 90s, probably. The mid to late 80s were pretty spectacular. As soon as free agency and expansion hit, yeah, I'd agree. I don't see the '96 Bulls winning 72 games in the West today, or in either side in the late 80s

[mexitucky]

And MJ took off two years because he was scared of Hakeem at his peak.

 

Just like the '94 baseball strike cheated us out of a great finish to the season, so Jordan's gambling suspension, er..retirement, kept us from those battles.

[PurplePride92]

Late 90s, probably. The mid to late 80s were pretty spectacular. As soon as free agency and expansion hit, yeah, I'd agree. I don't see the '96 Bulls winning 72 games in the West today, or in either side in the late 80s

 

Agree on all counts.

 

The mid to late 80s was so awesome.